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SENT the data re James Harold Hannan as Jpg's

REGARDS

Oh i am finding this so confusing sorry if the information is so vague. vikki

Sorry, all i no is what is on the marriage certificate. vikki

Hi i have asked my dad if beatrice married 3 times and he said yes (even though he thought is was only 2 until he found the hannan marriage cert) and the birth of a daughter you mentioned was correct. All the information i have on hubert hannan is what was on the marriage certificate, we know about beatrice and her side of the family, as my dad grew up thinking his nan and grandad was his mum and dad, we just dont no anthing about hubert, dont no when or where he died. It is so frustrating not knowing. thanks for you help in this matter as it means a lot to me. vikki

Where am I going wrong not finding these births? ;)

Hubert J Hannan Q3 1923 would have been possibly just turned 17 in August 1940.

If that was him ... I wonder whether, if no parental consent had been given and he was underage, that would have made the marriage voidable. (Different from void from the outset.) Not sure about UK law on that, would have to check.

He wouldn't have been a sergeant though, I don't think. Not that people haven't been known to tell untruths about that. (We had one here recently in a bigamous marriage who had stated his occupation to be Brigadier General!)

I'm suspecting that was a different Hubert though.

Births Sep 1923
Hannan Hubert J Byard Newport M 11a 483

??
Births Mar 1915
Edwards Ada M Donovan Newport M 11a 517
.

The death of Ada you found ties in with the Hannan/Edwards marriage as she was living with the daughter .

No HUBERT HANNAN 's in the UK from 1992/2000
nil from 2002/2010

Huh, I thought I'd checked for the dual registration! ... I did. Not on the same page, then. That does explain it. Usually, a dual registration shows up on a single birth certificate. This was two separate registrations somehow, a separate page having been created for the W registration. -- And on the image, it's a handwritten addition to the index, so the registration was later.

Question -- Victoria, do you have the certificates for both registrations? Is it okay with your dad if we post that information here, for ease of reference?

Rather than an annulment, I wondered about what we in the law biz call "void ab initio" -- a marriage that was not valid from the outset. The main reason for that is if it is bigamous.


I think this is the death of the wife in the 1943 marriage:

Name: Ada May Hannan
Birth Date: 12 Jan 1915
Death Registration Month/Year: Jul 1998
Age at death (estimated): 83
Registration district: Bristol
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Register number: I12C
District and Subdistrict: 3011I
Entry number: 54

Doesn't quite match with a birth, but it would not be unheard of for the year of birth to be out slightly for someone born that long ago. There is no other marriage of an Ada M to a Hannan.


Someone here at GR has one of the Newport births in their tree. Victoria, search trees (the button up at the top of this page) for the name and year of birth of the later birth I sent you.

It would probably be premature to try to contact that tree owner now, until you've sifted through all the possible information, but it is interesting for future consideration.

You are correct, the first marriage must have been voided as Victoria's dad is registered under both surnames.
Hence how the family just used the one birth certificate.

There are not many grounds for an annulment.
That maybe the clue as to why we can not find him after 1940.

.
.

Sorry JC,

Removed my comment about the birth 1 minute after I posted it when I realised.

And who is Harry?

Rose

There are two births to the Hannan + Edwards marriage. I will send them to you privately.

Reg as Hannan between the marriages, Rose.

My question is whether you have the Whitman + Hannan marriage certificate.

The info about the parents' names matches that birth posted above:

Births Mar 1912
Hannan Hubert Peacock Holbeck 9b 932

but that doesn't match your Hannan's age quite accurately, and there are no middle names.

Have you by any chance assumed that this was his birth? Does the father's name on the marriage certificate match that father, James H Hannan?

- edit -- sorry, you said you had the marriage certificate -- and that is the father's name on it?

That is the only birth ever for a Hubert Hannan. And yet we have this marriage:

Hubert J Hannan + Edwards Apr-May-Jun 1943 Newport

and this death:

Name: Hubert Roy Hannan
Birth Date: 17 Jan 1912
Death Registration Month/Year: 1971
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5a
Page: 1721

-- birthdate matching the 1912 birth.


I'm wondering whether, if that is possibly not him, your Hannan might have been Irish (and not telling the truth about his age). For example:

Name: Hubert Hannan
Registration District: Athy
Event Type: DEATHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1955
Estimated Birth Year: 1905
Age (at Death): 50
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

(He is in the 1911 Irish census with parents John and Maryanne and numerous siblings)

Name: Hubert T A Hannon
Registration District: Dublin South
Event Type: BIRTHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1918
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

Does your dad have his birth certificate?

How do you know who Jack's mother was? That info. isn't on a marriage cert.

Rose

Did Beatrice in fact marry three times?

There's only one birth to go around:

Births Jun 1918
WHITMAN Beatrice C Payne Bristol 6a 200

but there are these marriages:

Beatrice C Whitman + Hannan Jul-Aug-Sep 1940 Bristol
Beatrice C Whitman + Brooks Oct-Nov-Dec 1941 Bristol
Beatrice C Whitman + Everley Apr-May-Jun 1951 Bristol

For the marriage to Everley, the bride is identified as Brooks or Whitman, so the last two marriages are definitely the same person. And a daughter was born to the Brooks marriage, so that seems to be the one you referred to.

I ask because it was unusual for a divorced or widowed woman to remarry under her birth surname at the time. And because I don't see a death for Hannan in the English deaths index or at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website. Are you aware of when and where he died?

It's highly unlikely that Beatrice was divorced before the second marriage, so I'm wondering whether the first marriage, to Hannan, was void for some reason, leaving her free to remarry.

if you copy and paste this link into a the browser bar of a new tab/window, it will take you to a page at the MOD. It gives details on how to request service details of servicemen post 1913.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/WhatWeDo/Personnel/ServiceRecords/MakingARequestForInformationHeldOnThePersonnelRecordsOfDeceasedServicePersonnel.htm

Also, make an internet search for South Staffordshire Regiment. There are a number of results. One is for their museum; they may be able to tell you where/if the service records for Hubert John Kevin Hannan are held

HUBERT JOHN KEVIN HANNAN


England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
Name: Hubert J K Hannan
Spouse Surname: Beatrice C Whitman
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1940
Registration district: Bristol
Registration county (inferred): Gloucestershire, Somerset
Volume Number: 6a
Page Number: 717

HUBERT WAS 26 YEARS ????

Births Mar 1912
Hannan Hubert Peacock Holbeck 9b 932




EDIT
Marriages Mar 1912
Hannan James H Peacock Holbeach ( Holbeck ) 7a 681
( 9b 681)
Peacock Mary E Hannan Holbeck 9b 681

Births Mar 1885
Hannan James Harold Bramley 9b 361

IF YOU EMAIL YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS I WILL SENT YOU THE DATA & YOUR DAD CAN SEE J H HANNAN'S SIGNATURE ETC
British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
about James Harold Hannan
Name: James Harold Hannan
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Age at Enlistment: 23
Birth Parish: Gildersome
Birth County: Yorkshire
Document Year: 1908
Regimental Number: 5033
Regiment Name: RH & RFA Special Reserve
Number of Images: 5


British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: James Harold Hannan
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Age at Enlistment: 22
Birth Parish: Gildersome
Birth County: Yorkshire
Document Year: 1907
Regimental Number: 5033
Regiment Name: Yorkshire D Y O RGA (Militia)
Number of Images: 16

possibles <<<<
Births Jun 1882
PEACOCK Mary Emma Leeds 9b 477
Births Jun 1892
Peacock Mary Emma Dewsbury 9b 655
.

SADLY
Mary E Hannan AGE 77 1969 Crewe Cheshire
Mary E Hannan AGE 67 1950 Bolton Lancashire

it would help if you typed in lower case Victoria - so much easier to read, also if you put some breaks in your text - quite honestly I can't begin to decipher it

Also you don't appear to have given any relevant dates

COULD ANYONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP. MY FATHER HAS JUST FOUND OUT THAT HIS SISTER, (BEATRICE CHARLOTTE WHITMAN) WAS INFACT HIS MOTHER, HE HAS FOUND A MARRAGE CERTIFICATE OF A WEDDING OF HIS MOTHER TO A HUBERT JOHN KEVIN HANNAN OTHERWISE KNOWN AS JACK HANNAN. COULD ANYONE PLEASE TELL ME ANY INFORMATION ABOUT HUBERT HANNAN. . THEY MARRIED ON THE 3RD AUGUST 1940, AND HUBERT WAS 26 YEARS AND BEATRICE WAS 22 YEARS, BEATRICE DIDNT WORK AND HUBERT WAS A SERGEANT IT LOOKS LIKE HIS NUMBER WAS HOS50332, SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE REGIMENT, AND RESIDENCE AT THE TIME OF MARRAGE FOR BOTH OF THEM WAS 21 WESTON STREET, LAWRENCE HILL, BRISTOL. HUBERTS DAD WAS JAMES HANNAN AND HIS MUM WAS MARY EMMA PEACOCK, JAMES WAS A STATIONARY ENGINE ENGINEER, AND MARY WAS A WEAVER. MY FATHER HAS ASKED ME TO FIND OUT AS MUCH INFORMATION AS I CAN ABOUT HUBERT, WE DO NO THAT BEATRICE REMARRIED AND HAD A DAUGHTER, PLEASE PLEASE COULD ANYONE HELP AS MY FATHER IS REALLY DESPERATE TO NO. I WILL REPLY TO ANY MESSAGES AS SOON AS I CAN, BUT I HAVE JUST HAD A BABY, SO I CANT GET ON HERE AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE, BUT I WILL CHECK EVERYDAY. BEATRICE HAD A SISTER CALLED CORALIE WHO SADLY PASSED AWAY A FEW WEEKS AGO AND THATS HOW MY DAD CAME ACROSS THIS MARRAGE CERTIFICATE, AS CORA, BEATRICE AND HARRY ARE ALL DEAD AND HE IS THE ONLY LIVING "BROTHER" AS FAR AS WE NO. THANKYOU FOR READING, I NO ITS A BIT LONG, BUT THIS IS ALL THE INFO WE HAVE. VIKKI