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Hi Kath

Afraid it's me again. The info on the 1851 census looked good with Thomas and Lucy as parents etc., but Charles could'nt have been 14yrs old at the time.

Alex x

Ebineezer Scott and Mary Scott, both related to Eliza Fewell

Who were the witnesses at his wedding?

Rose

Hi Kath
I do appreciate very much the help you are giving me. Yes I am sure that the 1891 census is the right Charles, Eliza Jane Webb was my grandmother, her sisters were Arabella, Minnie and Matilda, I knew them all. From the marriage cert his father Thomas was a labourer, this does not cut the odds as most men seemed to be labourers in those days. However you have found a Charles who had a father named Thomas and who was deceased at time of Charles marriage, seems to me to be promising. Is it possible that Charles was in fact born in Astwick but christened in Flitton as Lucy's home ground ?. Is there anything I should be doing to help Kath ? how would I check the possibility of the Irish story being a factor ?. Thanks again for your help Kath.

Alex x

This would seem to be the above Charles Webb with his mother Lucy who is a widow in the 1851 census:-


1851 England Census about Lucy Webb
Name: Lucy Webb
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1813
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Flitton, Bedfordshire, England
Civil parish: Flitton
County/Island: Bedfordshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Ampthill
Sub-registration district: Shitlington
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 123
Household Members:
Name Age

Lucy Webb 38
Charles Webb 14
Henry Webb 12
Emily Webb 3

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1754; Folio: 323; Page: 34; GSU roll: 87681-87682.

Possible death for Lucy's husband Thomas:-

Name: Thomas Webb
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Ampthill
County: Bedfordshire
Volume: 6
Page: 9

Kath. x

I wonder if this could be Charles's baptism (again from the IGI). This time the father's name is correct and Flitton isn't too far away from Astwick. He could perhaps have moved whilst very young and thought he was born in Astwick:-

CHARLES WEBB
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
02 FEB 1845 Flitton With Silsoe, Bedford, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: THOMAS WEBB
Mother: LUCY

Kath. x

Hi Alexander,

I think I have just decided that the Biggleswade Charles is a red herring!!

If you know that the 1891 census record of Charles with a wife called Eliza is the correct family, then I think this 1881 census is the one from Biggleswade and therefore not the one you are looking for:-


1881 England Census about Charles W. Webb
Name: Charles W. Webb
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Annie M. Webb
Gender: Male
Where born: Biggleswade, Bedfordshire, England
Civil parish: Marlebone
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 27 Castle St East
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Porter Printers
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age

Charles W. Webb 33
Annie M. Webb 34
Kelhrine A. Webb 7 (looks like Katherine)
Florance M. Webb 6
Charles W. Webb 4
Sidney J. Webb 1

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 133; Folio: 123; Page: 32; GSU roll: 1341030.

Kath. x

This could well be the Charles I'm looking for but I keep coming up with different birth years for him. What makes this a possibility is the fact at 22yrs he was a horse groom. My Charles was a groom ( domestic ) at the age of 57yrs while living and married in Berwick. It may be that he was also a horse groom in the army. The problem is as I say the birth years vary quite a bit. From his marriage certificate dated August 1879 his age is given as 36 yrs, meaning he was born in 1843. I also have years of 1845, 1847 and now 1849. In July this year I contacted Bedfordshire & Luton Archives & Records Service, they could not find a birth entry within the district of Biggleswade but only searched the period 1844-1846. This could mean that 1849 is more likely to be correct. They could not locate him in the 1851 or 1861 census returns as a child, maybe he was in Ireland then. I remember my aunt telling me that he was always telling stories of County Clare, but then his daughter, my grandmother, was a great story teller too, it was hard to seperate truth from fiction. In the 1871 census he must have been a lodger with the Conner family as he is only 5yrs younger than them. Do you think the horse grooming is a reasonable lead or pure coincidence ?, that's an unfair question I know.

Alex x

There is this Charles in the 1871 census:-


Name: Charles Webb
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Conner
Mother's Name: Emma Conner
Gender: Male
Where born: Biggleswade, Bedfordshire, England
Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 401
Household Members:
Name Age

Thomas Conner 27
Emma Conner 27
Minnie Conner 3
Ellen E Conner 9 Months
Benjamin Botting 25
Charles Webb 22, horse groom, unmarried

Address 10 Booths Place

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 148; Folio: 103; Page: 65; GSU roll: 823295.

Kath. x

Hi Kath

Thanks for the further info and for staying with me on this. As you say maybe he felt the need to invent a father either to look legit for the inlaws or for his army records. There was a possibility, according to family hearsay, that he spent some time in County Clare, Ireland. this could explain his absence from a number of census records. As you say Biggleswade is the registration district which includes Astwick then this is very possibly the Charles Webb I'm looking for, from the Baptism records you found. The question now is where did he disappear to in the followng years before he turned up in Berwick upon Tweed, maybe the Irish story was correct. Thanks for your help Kath.

Alex x

This looks like it could be the baptism of the Charles Webb from the 1851 census with the unmarried mother:-



CHARLES WILLIAM WEBB
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
19 JAN 1849 Biggleswade, Bedford, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Mother: MARTHA WEBB

Kath. x

His birth may not have been registered at all since many were not in those days.

He could also have "made up" a deceased father for his marriage certificate so that he looked more "respectable" to the in-laws. This also happened quite a lot.

Kath. x

Hi Glitter Baby and Kathleen.

Sorry gals fell asleep.

Yes I have his marriage cert where his fathers name is given as Thomas (deceased ). He married Eliza Fewell a widow ( nee Scott ) while in the army.
The 1851 census Kathleen where he and his mother are visitors and she unmarried, begs the question was Thomas his biological dad or step dad.
Glitter Baby that is the right chap but there is no record of his birth in Astwick hence my cry for help. I will try Biggleswade archives and see what turns up.
Thanks girls for the quick response.
regards
Alex

1881 if you have found this one then no name correction has been added

Name: Charles Welb
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza Welb
Gender: Male
Where born: Astwick, Bedfordshire, England

Civil parish: Berwick Upon Tweed
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street Address: 23 Walkergate Lane
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Groom (Pensioner From 5th)

Registration district: Berwick
Sub-registration district: Berwick Upon Tweed
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Welb 37
Eliza Welb 35
William Welb 9
Angelina Welb 8
Eliza J. Welb



Given the comment against his occupation then he might be missing from 1871 or serving in the Army

There is this one on the 1851 census that could be a possible. His birthplace is given as Biggleswade which is quite close to Astwick:-



1851 England Census about Charles Webb
Name: Charles Webb
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Biggleswade, Bedfordshire, England
Civil parish: Biggleswade
Town: Biggleswade
County/Island: Bedfordshire
Country: England

Street Address: Palace Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Biggleswade
Sub-registration district: Potton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 44
Household Members:
Name Age

Jane Evans 25
Susannah Evans 2
Martha Webb 30, visitor - unmarried
Charles Webb 3, visitor
Elizabeth Pope 29, boarder
Anne Pope 1, boarder

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1753; Folio: 527; Page: 10; GSU roll: 87678-87680.

Kath. x

1891 I presume this one

Name: Charles Webb
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza Webb
Gender: Male
Where born: Astwick, Bedfordshire, England

Civil parish: Berwick Upon Tweed
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Berwick
Sub-registration district: Berwick upon Tweed
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Webb 46
Eliza Webb 44
William S Fewell 19
Eliza J Webb 10
Arabella Webb 9
Minnie Webb 4
Matilda Webb 6



Have you found him earlier



Marriages Sep 1879 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUGLAS Annie Berwick 10b 463
BURDER Robert Berwick 10b 463
Fewell Eliza Berwick 10b 463
WEBB Charles Berwick 10b 463

Which census if any have you found him on?

Did he marry and have you got the cert for the name & occupation of his father if he knew it

Trying to find info on early years of my grt grandfather. He was Charles Webb, reportedly born in Astwick Bedfordshire around 1845. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Alex