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mgnv My spelling is not to good .it should say i,m not use to the abbreviations chris

mgnv if you read my message again i was not asking you not to us abbreviations I asked you what was the meaning of pp regards chris ps hubby says house hold hes much cleverer than me.

Sorry, but no way will I stop using abbreviations, even those I make up myself. If readers can't guess what I mean, I expect them to take the quite sensible course of asking me.

pp is a standard abbreviation for pages.

I've just had a look around - specifically I checked product info on Amazon (they say "pages") and 3 major library catalogs (BL, LoC, MARC - OK, BL=British Library, LoC=Library of Congress, MARC is the acronym for MAchine-Readable Cataloging - had to look MARC up) and they all say 651 p., so maybe pp. is now becoming obsolete. I'm pretty sure it's listed in my 1950s English dictionary (Chamber's - so British is probably more accurate), but I took that with me for the X-word while I waited to pick my son up off the ferry and left it in the car, which my son now has. It is in my 1983 Webster, but neither really settle the obsolescence question, especially for the UK.

The ---- line in my earlier post is where I think the page break is - but I can't even tell they're all in the same h/h ( - another for you to guess).

NB This weekend only, you can search Ancestry's passenger lists - see:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1238465
That'll give you a chance to grab the images - if you've not already pm'ed (pm=private message) posters to ask for them.

thanks mgnv for all your hard work just one thing not use to the abbreviations what does (spread over 2 pp)mean regards chris

Stephen's also there in 1930 (spread over 2 pp, I think), but my Ancestry sub doesn't give me details.

1930 United States Federal Census
Steven F Sale name city, Middlesex, New Jersey abt 1885 location info
Florence E Sale name city, Middlesex, New Jersey abt 1889 info
Francis F Sale name,name city, Middlesex, New Jersey abt 1915 info
-----------
Florence H Sale name,name city, Middlesex, New Jersey abt 1919 info


This weekend only, you can search Ancestry's passenger lists and save their images. See:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1238465

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
From the record available here, it's hard to construct households - I only know the following 5 people are on the same sheet (I've edited that identifer out).
I also don't know if there's any non-Sale's in the h/h.

Name: Stephen F Sale
Residence: , Middlesex, New Jersey
Estimated Birth Year: 1885
Age: 35
Birthplace: England
Relationship to Head of Household: Self
Gender: Male
Race: White
Marital Status: Married
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Birthplace:
Film Number: 1821055
Digital Folder Number: 4313356
Image Number: 00413
Sheet Number: 33
Collection: United States Census, 1920

Name: Florence E Sale
Age: 30
Birthplace: England
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife

Name: Francis F Sale
Age: 5
Birthplace: New York
Relationship to Head of Household: Son

Name: Florence H Sale
Age: 1
Birthplace: New Jersey
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter

Name: Roland F Sale
Age: 25
Birthplace: England
Relationship to Head of Household: Brother

vera just got info on return of rowland a butler! well i never seems he never married pity there no census for 1931! thanks again chris

i am absolutely amazed 119 st james st is where my husbands gandad lived stephen was his grandads brother how do i look at the american census to find out what happened in the personal lives of stephen and rowland do i need to join ancestry? thanks so much ??????and choccy,lins and vera regards chris. ps my hubby was 13 when stephen came home but was unaware as he was living in bristol at the time, but people didnt seem to communicate in those days

Going to Canada

Rowland SALE
Date of departure: 13 July 1929
Port of departure: Southampton
Passenger destination port: Quebec, Canada
Passenger destination: Quebec, Canada

Date of Birth: 1893 (calculated from age)
Age: 36
Marital status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Man Servant
Passenger recorded on: Page 4 of 16




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ship:
Official Number:
Master's name:
Steamship Line:
Where bound:
Square feet:
Registered tonnage:
Passengers on voyage:
AUSONIA

P A Murchie
Cunard
Montreal, Canada
9342
8526
325



Coming back to the UK

Rowland Sale
Birth Date: abt 1892
Age: 37
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Arrival Date: 21 Oct 1929
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Plymouth
Ship Name: Aurania
Search Ship Database: View the 'Aurania' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Cunard Line
Official Number: 147277

Occupation ...Butler.......address 45, Pedworth Road, Camberley Surrey.

REgards Vera

???????

Stephen Sale
Birth Date: 28 Nov 1884
Age: 72
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 1 Oct 1957
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ship Name: Queen Elizabeth
Search Ship Database: View the 'Queen Elizabeth' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 7601/01

Found this one coming back to England. He is retired. The address he is going to is
119 St James Road, Derby.

Regards Vera

well vera you found him thanks so much and sorry glitter babe i ment 1885,i never thought so many people went to america and canada in those days regards chris

Stephen F SALE
Date of departure: 5 March 1910
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: New York, USA
Passenger destination: New York, USA

Date of Birth: 1885 (calculated from age)
Age: 25
Marital status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Carpenter
Passenger recorded on: Page 1 of 31




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ship:
Official Number:
Master's name:
Steamship Line:
Where bound:
Square feet:
Registered tonnage:
Passengers on voyage:
CAMPANIA
102086
R C Warr
Cunard
New York, USA
12097
4973
820



Have you seen this.....


Regards Vera

Births Mar 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sale Stephen Francis Derby 7b 551



Not 1895

any chance someone could find out what stephen francis sale was doing in canada he was born in derbyshire endland census year 1901 age 16 not on 1911 census date of bith 1st Q 1895 thanks again chris ps may be something to do with a bakery?

thats amazing thanks to all of you out there you never fail hes gone to out there and hes met by his brother stephen francis sale i didnt know stephen was out there in canada thanks again chris

There are quite a few 'comings and goings' of Rowland -



New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Rowland Faulkes Sale
Arrival Date: 18 Aug 1920
Birth Year: abt 1892
Birth Location: England
Birth Location Other: Derby
Age: 27 Years 11 Months
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Southampton
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: New York
Search Ship Database: Search the New York in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database



Source Citation: Year: 1920; Microfilm serial: T715; Microfilm roll: T715_2816; Line: 22; Page Number: 8.

Rowland SALE
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1892
Death Date: Aug 1980
Social Security Number: 157-07-4404
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: New Jersey

Actual Death Residence: Europe

Death Residence Localities
ZIP Code: XX800
Localities:

Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1956
Name: Rowland F Sale
Arrival Date: 23 Aug 1929
Age: 37
Birth Date: abt 1892
Birthplace: Derby
Birth Country: England
Gender: Male
Race/Nationality: English

Port of Arrival: Niagara Falls, New York, USA
Departure Contact: Father Richard
Arrival Contact: Brother Stephen F
Record has photo?: No





U.S. World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
Name: Rowland Foulkes Sale
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1892
Birth Place: Derby
Residence: Morris, New Jersey
Race: White
Roll: WWII_2275934
Age:

Occupation:

Nearest Relative:

Height/Build:

Colour of Eyes/Hair:

Signature: View image



Source Citation: Roll WWII_2275934; Local board: Morris , New Jersey.

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
Name: Rowland Foulkes Sale
County: Middlesex
State: New Jersey
Birthplace: Derbyshire;England
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1892
Race: Caucasian (White)
FHL Roll Number: 1712352
DraftBoard: 4
Age:

Occupation:

Nearest Relative:

Height/Build:

Colour of Eyes/Hair:

Signature: View image



Source Citation: Registration Location: Middlesex County, New Jersey; Roll 1712352; Draft Board: 4.

i know all about rowlands ancesters but not what happened to him icant find any marriage or death ive looked at military deaths but nothing he was born in derby england hes on the 1901 census as 18 but it should be 8 hes on the 1911 census at 18 which is i know is right ,his brother who was 10 yrs older went to america in 1906 but i no he didnt travel with him thanks for any help regards chris