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The 1841 census is very poor many people were not on it and many of the census documents were destroyed or illegible so you may never find them.
As John is given as deceased on Mary's marriage cert it is likely he died pre statutory records ie 1855. Most deaths before that are not recorded so again the chances of finding him are slight.
I think maybe Elizabeth's name is given as Osmond as that is what the person who actually wrote it down thought that it was

Aileen i think that is it! I wonder why it says Margaret Osman on Mary's Death Certificate. Thankyou very much, i really appreciate your help!

The only thing now is the Census' that i can't seem to find, and also the Death of John Fleming, because i can't seem him in a likely census record i have no idea of his death of Death or Birth.

Also found this marriage although the names don't quite tally

ROBERT OSMAN
Event(s):
Marriages:
Spouse: MARGARET LIDDLE
Marriage:
19 MAY 1805 Montrose, Angus, Scotland

and these two births

17/06/1807 OSMAN DAVID ROBERT OSMAN/MARGARET LIDDLE FR1389 M BO'NESS /WEST LOTHIAN
01/12/1816 OSMAN JANE ROBERT OSMAN/MARGARET LIDDLE FR1413 F BO'NESS /WEST LOTHIAN

Hi,
I took a look at the marriage cert on SP and it doesn't say Osmond .....like you I'm not sure what it does say but I did find this death which seems to be right

1877 FLEMING ELIZABETH OSSMAN F 60 BLACKFRIARS GLASGOW CITY/LANARK

Elizabeth Fleming widow of John Fleming (General Carter) died 16/03/1877 daughter of William (Chelsea Pensioner) and Margaret Ossman ms Liddell (both deceased)......cert was signed by Mary McCormick (Daughter) 292 High Street Glasgow (cert was signed with Mary's mark as she probably couldn't write)

Helen - It is very difficult to read. The writing on the screen is broken to look at and the last two or three letters of the Maiden Name have a column line between them so i can't tell is letters. Yeah i would appreciate it if you could have a look at it. I have been on ScotlandsPeople and looked for any Elizabeths born between 1805 - 1809 in Montrose Forfar (Like is says on the Census') yet can't see a match there. How would is send this image to you?

Ellen - Thanks for looking that info. up for me. I had come across the Mary Motherwell Link, and had used it for a while as it seemed the strongest possible mother for Mary. And also because it lists her husband as John Flemming - Carter. So, right. We have three names - Elizabeth (From the census' and also from Birth and Death Certificate of a couple of Mary's Daughters). Margaret Osmond (From Mary's Death Certificate in 1895) and Mary Motherwell (From the 1841 & 1851 Census)...and still no closer to finding her.

I think if Elizabeths name appeared as the person who registered on the Death Cert. of Mary's first Daughter who was also called Elizabeth, and on the birth and death certs. of Mary's Daughter Agnes - then Mary's Mother's name was definately Elizabeth.

Then again Margaret Dobbie is the closest name we have to Margaret Osmond. Daniel McCormack - Mary's son Registered her Death in 1895 and probably gave all the details - he was born in 1867 and "Elizabeth" Fleming died some time between 1871 and 1881, so he may or may not have remembered her details.

Hmph.

Mitchell Library,Glasgow Poor Relief ,may be worth a try.

Ellen

JOHN FLEMING Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: MARGARET DOBBIE Family
Marriage: 27 MAR 1825 Denny, Stirling, Scotland



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M114764 1819 - 1854 1041975, 0102105 Film 6903144 Film


Sheet: 00



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A possible 1st.marriage .

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JOHN FLEMING Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: MARY MOTHERWELL Family
Marriage: 19 JUL 1829 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland



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Messages:
Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The form lists the submitter's name and address and may include source information. The address may be outdated. Details vary. To find the form, you must know the batch and sheet number.


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Source Information:
Batch Number: 7122228
Sheet: 42
Source Call No.: 0538878 Type: Film

MARY MCCORMICK Pedigree
Female


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Event(s):
Birth: 02 JAN 1859 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: DANIEL MCCORMICK Family
Mother: MARY FLEMING


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C119181 1855 - 1874 6035516 REGISTER Film NONE


Sheet: 00

1851
Name: Mary Fleming
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1807
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name: John Fleming -as before
Gender: Female
Where born: Montrose
Parish Number: 644/1
Civil parish: Glasgow St David
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 45 Shuttle Street
ED: 11
Page: 12 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 41
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1851_156
Household Members: Name Age
John Fleming 50 -as
Mary Fleming 44
Nancy Fleming 18 -Agnes
Mary Fleming 16
John Fleming 11


Unfortunately, we are unable to display the accompanying images of this census at present, despite extensive negotiation with the General Register Office for Scotland. Permission from them has not, as yet, been forthcoming. For this reason, and to enable you to continue with your family history research, Ancestry has heavily transcribed the Scottish Census records to ensure you have access to all key areas of information contained within this collection.

Save This Record

1861
Name: Mrs Fleming
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Ntontrose, Forfarsh
Registration Number: 644/2
Registration district: High Church
Civil parish: Glasgow Inner High
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 5 Barrels Lane
Occupation: Wash Woman
ED: 14
Household schedule number: 75
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1861_98
Household Members: Name Age
Mrs Fleming 55
Danie Mccormick 24
Mary Mccormick 24
Mary Walter 27
Mary Mccormick 2


Unfortunately, we are unable to display the accompanying images of this census at present, despite extensive negotiation with the General Register Office for Scotland. Permission from them has not, as yet, been forthcoming. For this reason, and to enable you to continue with your family history research, Ancestry has heavily transcribed the Scottish Census records to ensure you have access to all key areas of information contained within this collection

1851
Name: John Fleming
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name: Mary Fleming
Gender: Male
Where born: Rennyloanhead, Stirlingshire
Parish Number: 644/1
Civil parish: Glasgow St David
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 45 Shuttle Street
Occupation: Carter
ED: 11
Page: 12 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 41
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1851_156
Household Members: Name Age
John Fleming 50
Mary Fleming 44
Nancy Fleming 18
Mary Fleming 16 -Flax Spinner
John Fleming 11


Unfortunately, we are unable to display the accompanying images of this census at present, despite extensive negotiation with the General Register Office for Scotland. Permission from them has not, as yet, been forthcoming. For this reason, and to enable you to continue with your family history research, Ancestry has heavily transcribed the Scottish Census records to ensure you have access to all key areas of information contained within this collection.

Save This Record

Could you give details of a child ,name ,where born,date.

Ellen

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DANIEL MCCORMICK Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: MARY FLEMING Family
Marriage: 18 JUL 1856 Central District, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M116441 1855 - 1874 6035516 REGISTER Film NONE


Sheet: 00

I have a birth cert for my grt uncle....his father was William and his mother Annie.....
Yet his birth cert states the right father, but it names Annies mother as the childs mother....
Some would say that this could happen but Esther (Annies mother) was 64 when her grandson was born....
So we think that when the birth was registered and the registrar asked mothers name, Annie gave her mothers name...I know it sounds daft, but info on certs is only as good as the people giving or asking for it...

It looks possible, yet still as you said, no Mary. And i realise that her age on her Death Certificate may be a fair bit out, yet still she would have to have been born in the 1830's, she had her first daughter in 1855 (Elizabeth McCormick).

Ahh now there is another problem with my research. I have the Marriage certificate for Mary and Daniel yet i am finding it very difficult to read Mary's Mother's Maiden Name. I can't think of what it would be. I thought i had it solved when i found Mary's Death, but it only gave me a completely different Mothers name - Margaret Osmond. Yet i can tell on the Marriage Certificate that the Mother's Maiden Name isn't Osmond.

Why did they round the ages down 5 years? So if it says that both John and Elizabeth were 30...they would have been 35 ish?

Hello!

I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me in a little detective work to find some people.

My 3x Great Grandmother was a Mary Fleming. She Married a Daniel McCormack in 1856 in Lanarkshire. Together they had 6 children - 4 girls who all died in infancy, and 2 boys - John & Daniel who is my 2x Great Grandfather. The problem is with Mary's parents. In the 1861 & 1871 Census' Mary's Mother is Elisabeth Fleming. b. Abt 1806 in Montrose, Forfar & on Mary's Daughter Agnes McCormack's Death Certificate in 1858 it says "Elisabeth Fleming, Grandmother, Present".

However...on Mary McCormack nee Flemings Death Certificate in 1895 (Aged 58) it lists her Mother as a Margaret Osmond. . .

Mary's Father throughout is a constant - John Fleming, Carter. He dies before 1861. Yet i haven't been able to find him in any census' so therefore know nothing of his place of birth nor his year of birth. Neither can i find a Birth for Mary using the age given on her Death Certificate to estimate her year of Birth give or take a few years.

I realise it may be confusing to read, but if anyone is willing to help i could clear up some queries if you have them. Maybe i am missing something, because i am constantly searching the same records and some new ones but never find anything new.

Also, one thing to add is that on Mary Flemings Marriage Certificate, an Agnes Fleming is a Witness though i don't know if this is a sister, a cousin or an older relative. I did however find a Marriage for an Agnes Fleming in 1863 to John Gillon, Agnes parents were John Fleming, Carter (Deceased) and Mother Ann McPhie. It seems the mothers names are always at odds with each other.

If anyone could help me with this i would really really appreciate it!

Many thanks,

Keelan