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You came at the end of a really annoying day of this -- just too many people not disclosing info, not acknowledging replies ...

You at least stuck around! ;)

I would start with one of the two possible births (girl in Notts, boy in Wales). Since the story you had was that the child was a boy, that would be the Walter. Yes, indeed, get the birth certificate! It's the only way to *know*.

It does seem a bit farfetched, but when you've been doing genealogy a while, you know that farfetched isn't a reason to rule something out, believe me ... the daughter of a mother whose surname I discovered, some 5 or 6 years ago, is 100% fake as a result, I discovered much later, of her grandfather having deserted from the British military after 5 years, in the 1870s, rather than get stop-lossed to Afghanistan -- and deciding he needed a new name, but still living in fear and nightmares of the old Queen coming to get him for decades after, including in Australia and Canada. Still haven't figured out why *that* surname, except that his sister I'd never heard of had it as a second middle name, and the younger brother of the Viscount (him always having told the tale that he was the son of the younger brother of the Viscount, don't we all have 'em) did die at Alma mere weeks before that younger sister's birth ...

Anyhow, yup, you gotta pay to play, in this game. Birth certs are got here, you probably know:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

I never thought of that. It never occured to me that she might have had an affair so wouldnt necessarily have used Varley. It never occured to me either that she may have run off somewhere as far as Wales. Thats an intersting twist.

I have looked at the Walter information and it does look very interesting. The dates all seem to match and the fact that he died in Notts is great too. I suppose theres always the option of getting a birth certificate to find out exactly who his mother was.

I'm sorry for any ill feeling this communication may have caused. I am very grateful for your help. I think the reason that I may have come across as ungrateful is because I am a slow typer and by the time I had read and typed my responses, you had already done a lot and posted some posts. I suppose its one of the hazards of this type of communication. People arent necessarily typing "in turn" and therefore communication can break down a bit.

Paula

I was not "having a go", whatever you mean by that. I was pointing out that you DID waste my time, and that you did NOT acknowledge responses in any way.

You can't know how the birth would have been registered. If the child's father was not Varley, Lavinia might have chosen to register the birth in her birth surname or the father's surname, without disclosing her marriage.

I kind of assumed that this was the case -- that Varley was not the father. It could be either way.

In any event, perhaps you have now had a chance to consider the Walter Varley birth I proposed. If Lavinia ran off, she may have run to another jurisdiction altogether, with another man for instance. And she may not have registered the birth, until some need for doing that arose -- at which point, as I noted earlier, the presumption of legitimacy would have required that it be registered in her husband's surname with him as the father.

I'm sorry. I mis-interpreted your post. I thought you were having a go because I had wasted your time, so therefore got defensive.

I am very grateful to all the people who have so much information and knowledge at their finger tips.

As far as I am aware the birth would have been registered as Varley or possibly Simpson.

Because I had already invested in this, I have added info to a post above re a possible birth.

YOU DID NOT GET AN UNPLEASANT RESPONSE.

You got two people doing their best to help you with your query (and very probably others who did searches and came up with nothing more so didn't post).

YOU DID NOT SO MUCH AS OFFER YOUR THANKS.

"If I had known that you needed the date of her death and whether her name had changed in order for you find a birth, then I would have gladly told you."

If you had SAID that you knew that her name had changed and that YOU KNEW THAT THE MYSTERY BIRTH WAS NOT REGISTERED IN THAT NAME, then that would have been all that was needed.

This can indeed be a friendly and helpful service. The responses you received in this thread from two of us were NOTHING BUT friendly and helpful. So kindly don't be pretending otherwise.

Particularly if people familiarize themselves with it first -- like by READING THE POST pinned at the top of the board by the site management, and spending 10 minutes browsing a few threads to get a feel for how best to request assistance.

This is the first time I have used this service and as such I am unfamilliar with the correct ettiquette. I also didn't expect an unpleasant response.
I apologise if you feel I have wasted your time. You are obviously a regular at this. Please don't be too harsh on the people who don't really know what information is required instantly.
If I had known that you needed the date of her death and whether her name had changed in order for you find a birth, then I would have gladly told you.

If anyone else would like to assist me, then I would be very grateful. If there is anything that you need to know before-hand, then please do ask.
I'm sure that this can be a very friendly and helpful service.

There is one odd birth Imight consider.

Name: Walter Varley
Mother's Maiden Surname: Simpson
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1917
Registration district: Pontypridd
Registration county: Wales
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: Sept 1922

The birth was in 1917 but was registered in 1922. I can't find a corresponding registration in 1917 that this would have been a correction of (given name Walter / mother's surname Varley or Simpson).


... Just because I had already devoted time and effort to this ...


*possibly* - there are other Walter Varley births in1917, but not in Nottinghamshire

Name: Walter Varley
>>> Birth Date: 1917
Death Registration Month/Year: Jan 1998
Age at death (estimated): 81
>>> Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Register number: E66A
District and Subdistrict: 6891E
Entry number: 138

Well, I guess if you'd told us all that to start with, I wouldn't have spent my time "finding" it.

I seem to have spent my entire time today doing just that. I don't know why people don't think it advisable to **give the information they have** when they ask others for help.

You're welcome. Whatever.

Lavina died in 1973 in Notts. She re-married in 1936 and became Lavinia Lythe. Her name was spelt in several ways over the years; Lavinia, Lavina, Levina, Levinia, Lavenia and Vina.

She was born 4/8/1890.

Just before my Grandad died in 1986, he reckoned that he may have met his 'long lost brother' in the pub. Whether this was a case of wishful thinking, we're not sure. But it just makes me wonder! I have thought many times that maybe she went on to have a stillbirth or miscarriage, but kept coming back to the thought that maybe my grandad did meet him at the pub!

Paula

Oh yes I do!!

Name: Lavina Varley
Spouse: John G Lythe
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1936
Registration district: Nottingham
Registration county (inferred): Nottinghamshire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 1086

Name: John G Lythe
Death Registration Month/Year: 1961
Age at death (estimated): 65 (dob c1896)
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 265

1911 census:

LYTHE JOHN GEORGE 1896 15 Nottingham Nottinghamshire

edit -- I'd definitely say possible enough! Could be a red herring, a child of an unmarried Ms Varley, but has to be ruled out if nothing better emerges.

Name: Elizabeth C Varley
Spouse Surname: Normington
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1935
Registration district: Nottingham
Registration county (inferred): Nottinghamshire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 1075



If you don't have Lavinia's death ... this one could be interesting.

Name: Lavinia Lythe
> Birth Date: 4 Aug 1890
Death Registration Month/Year: 1973
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 1305

I don't find a birth of a Lavinia Lythe, or a marriage of a Lavinia to a Lythe, to account for that person. The surname in which the death was recorded could be a "known as".

Maybe it's possible enough to justify getting the cert?
Jan

An explanation for that birth being the one could be that she was not stating the father's name as she would have had to do if she said shw was married (presumption of legitimacy), but she was using the name she was known by, her married surname -- so she described herself as a single woman and said that her surname was her birth surname. That's been done!

Not sure how you are going to do this to be honest. There's this - a bit unusual but I myself have a case of the mother's maiden name being recorded wrongly:

Births Sep 1916 (>99%)
Varley Elizabeth C Varley Basford 7b 506

Just placing Lavinia's birth --

Births Sep 1890
Simpson Lavinia Basford 7b 459


The unknown birth doesn't seem to have been registered as Varley mother Simpson, of course.

It's also possible she didn't have a successful delivery.


Do you have a record of her death, and was it registered as Varley? (Not that I can find.)

Hi,
I have been trying to solve this family mystery forever it seems and have come to a point where i dont know what to do next. So any help would be fabulous. Here's the story:
My Great Grandfather and Grandmother John and Lavinia Varley had 3 children between 1911 and 1915 called John, Arthur and Eleanor. Between 1915 and 1918 Lavinia left them all and was pregnant again at the time. We are trying to find out who this baby was and where he was born etc.
While the family was together they lived in Langley near Heanor in Derbyshire.
Lavinia's maiden name was Simpson. She was born in Nottingham in 1890.
I would be ever so grateful if anyone has any suggestions or can help me in any way.
Many thanks, Paula