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Cornelius Hart c.1830, poss Ireland. His daughter, Ellen Mary Thomas (nee Hart) 1856 is my GGM (paternal), Wife was Ellen Feeley c.1821 also from Ireland, any info? DeeTee.

Hi,

Where was Ellen born? have you found her on any census?


Dee x

1871 Wales Census about Cornelius Hart
Name: Cornelius Hart
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Bridget
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Grangetown and Llandaff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 21a
Household schedule number: 64
Household Members:
Name Age
Cornelius Hart 40
Bridget Hart 38
>>>>>>>>Ellen Hart 15
Honora Hart 12
Mary Foley 10
Catherine Hart 1 month



Dee x

Uuuummmmmmmmmm;

1861 Wales Census about Cornelius Haut
Name: Cornelius Haut
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1820
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish or Township: Colwinstone
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Bridgend
Sub-registration district: Cowbridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Cornelius Haut 41
Ellen Haut 40
John Haut 8
Ellen Haut 6
Ann Haut 3

Looks like HART on the image , so he had a new wife by 1871??

Dee x

Cornelius 2nd marriage, this should name his father;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1867 (>99%)
>>>>>>>>>>Foley Bridget Cardiff 11a 354
>>>>>>>Hart Cornelius Cardiff 11a 354
HORWOOD John Cardiff 11a 354
Richards Sarah Cardiff 11a 354



Dee x

Hi Dee, I am pretty sure that Ellen was born in Merthyr Tydfil- B.C:- cardiff 11a 208 or 245 3Q 1856. My confusion lies between your following replies, that like me, there are two different entries for poss birth dates of Cornelius Hart! I do believe that he married Ellen and then Bridget Foley( 1850 then 1867). I'll just have to send for the marriage certs to see if they can help. Many, many thanks for your interest and help. Regards David.

When all other factors match from one census to the next, we might suspect things like somebody minimizing their age because they'd married someone a good deal younger. ;)

Hi Denise,
I've just rec'd the mar cert for Cornelius, it is as suspected, he mar Ellen Feeley (aged 28yrs) on 18th Sept 1850. Her father is named as Owen Feeley (deceased). His father is named as John Hart (deceased). His age is unreadable but looks like 28yrs?? This would tie in with the 1861 census when they lived in Colwinstone (just outside Cardiff). Subsequent census's may make more sense when I get Bridget's details, who he married in 1867. Her name was Bridget Foley (widow)c.1831. Her maiden name was Bridget Bohan. And on it goes!! Irish records seem a bit thin on the ground, but I'll keep looking. Highest Regards David.

And once again I'm invisible.

Anyway, if he married someone born c1831, my theory that he was minimizing his age might apply ...

You have that second-marriage certificate, and his stated age is?

(edit - I thought maybe you had it because you knew she was widowed and what her former names were; it seems maybe you're ordering it now though, and will report the details when received.)

Hi janey,
Sorry, I thought my last entry applied equally to you! EVERY bit of info is used to equal effect( grovel,grovel).I'm waiting for the 2nd Mar Cert (to Bridget) details WIll be reported to you! My info was gathered from many other sources! Regards David.

I just hate to see anyone led astray by discrepancies in census records -- knowing how half my ancestors lied through their teeth at every opportunity! ;)

No mar cert for Bridget yet, del date now 7th Sept!Your entry, above, for colwinstone has really put the cat among the pidgeons! It makes alot of sense to me, as the dates seem to fit my tree. A time line of all the GR census's for Cornelius makes this one stand out as the most likely, ( NONE of the GR's census report's even show a Cornelious Hart 1820!) Have they a problem with the Welsh Census' Returns?? Do you have any other returns for Cornelious Hart 1820? Or can you point me at them? Regards David.

Hi David,

looking at the 1861 census again they were all born in Ireland except Ann who was 3 and born in Cardiff, so the family came to Wales between 1855 and 1858, so Cornelious wont be on Census to prior to this.


Dee x

1881 Wales Census about Cornelius Hart
Name: Cornelius Hart
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Bridget Hart
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Leckwith
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 14 Thomas St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Labourer
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Cornelius Hart 45
Bridget Hart 47
Catherine Hart 10
Maggie Hart 4
Timothy O Leary 25 >> Lodger born Ireland


1891 Wales Census about Cornelious Hart
Name: Cornelious Hart
Age: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Bridget Hart
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Canton
Ecclesiastical parish: Canton
Town: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 14 Thomas Street
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 47a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Cornelious Hart 62
Bridget Hart 59
Margaret Hart 14
Mary Daffan 55 >> Boarder, widow born Ireland. DUGGAN on image


1901 Wales Census about Bridget Hart
Name: Bridget Hart
Age in 1901: 69
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Canton
Ecclesiastical parish: Canton St Paul
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 14 Thomas Street
Condition as to marriage: Widow
Education: View image
Employment status: Parish relief
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: West Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 271
Household Members:
Name Age
Bridget Hart 69



So Cornelious had died prior to the 1901 census.


David, I never use GR census.......... very expensive. The majority of us use Ancestry or Find My Past.


Dee x

Dear Dee & Janey,
Many thanks for your replies. I do have copies of all the censuses 1841 to 1901 (excepting 1861) from GR records. They all give a birth date of between 1830/ 1833, not the 1961 date of 1820/1. Is this a case of rounding up as previously suggested?? Or is it another family altogether?? I'll give you all the details of Bridget's mar cert on receipt. Regards David.

Hi David,

my own gut instinct is that it is the same family just Cornelius adjusting his age, maybe to be nearer to his 2nd wifes age.

Let's hope the marriage certificate confirms a little more for you though.

Dee x

Hi Dee & Janey,
Just received the mar cert for Bridget, details follow. Mar date 15th August 1867 at St Davids R.C Church, Cardiff. Cornelius Hart (Widower) aged 36, Lab, Father:- John Hart (deceased). To Bridget Foley (Widow) aged 34, Father:- Cornelius Bohan (deceased). This seems to have confirmed all that I've found so far,(even if Cornelius didn't seem to know when he was born!). Must thank you both for your help and guidance along the way. Who ever said Family History would be straight forward?? Highest Regards David.