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I mean marriage certifcate found.....until my next mystery. bye for now...

Jason

yep, I think looking at all the info it makes sense, the birth year, the marriage record and finally the place of birth, it all leads to Alfred changing his name for some reason. Well guys, you have solved one mystery re the birth certificate and we seem to have opened up a whole new cupboard and found a shed load of skeletons possibly.

I can thank you all enough. You all really have kept the community reputation alive.

Thanks again, Jason

I reckon it would be worth getting that marriage cert.

Ozi

My personal feeling is that William and Alfred are the same man. Why does William change his birth from Leeds to Deptford and then when he's older he relaxes more and gives his real birth area??!!


Dee x

Yes, I've been looking at that angle.

Especially with Jane Prater born 1880.

And William Cannings chidren have names similar to Alfred Praters siblings!!!

Rhoda and Charlotte!!


Dee x

The birth area for this Alfred Prater interested me;


1861 England Census about Alfred Prater
Name: Alfred Prater
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ecckinswell, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Eccinswell
Ecclesiastical parish: Eccinswell
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Kingsclere
Sub-registration district: Kingsclere
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
George Prater 53
Hannah Prater 43
Roda Prater 14
Charlotte Prater 8
Alfred Prater 6

1871 England Census about Alfred Prater
Name: Alfred Prater
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Itchingswell, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Sidmonton
Town: Sidmonton
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: Kingsclere
Sub-registration district: Kingsclere
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
George Garrett 43
Eliza Garrett 39
Alfred Garrett 13
Jane Garrett 8
Sarah Garrett 7
Mary Garrett 5
Bertrice Garrett 4
Richard Garrett 2
George Butler 25
Alfred Prater 16

I can't see him after 1871 so did he change his name to William Cannings???


Dee x

1911 census
Person: CANNING, Elsie
Address: 7 Lloyd Villas East Ham

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

CANNING, William Head Widower M 55 1856 Engineer Labourer Ecktringswell Hants
CANNING, George Son Single M 20 1891 General Labourer East Ham Essex
CANNING, Fredrick Son Single M 18 1893 General Labourer East Ham Essex
CANNING, Harry Son Single M 11 1900 East Ham Essex
CANNING, Horace Son Single M 9 1902 East Ham Essex
CANNING, Charlotte Daughter Single F 22 1889 Housekeeper East Ham Essex
CANNING, Elsie Daughter Single F 13 1898 East Ham Essex


also says married 31 years, (eventhough he's a widower) eleven children born to the marriage and states all still alive in 1911

Free search 1911;

HOUSEHOLD CANNING CHARLOTTE F 1889 22 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD CANNING ELSIE F 1898 13 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD CANNING FREDRICK M 1893 18 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD CANNING GEORGE M 1891 20 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD CANNING HORACE M 1902 9 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD CANNING WILLIAM M 1856 55 West Ham Essex
HOUSEHOLD CANNING HARRY M 1900 11 West Ham Essex


Dee x

just checked the 1901 census, we definately have the right 1881 and 1891 census records as it shows the frederick J canning born 1892 for which I have the certificate.

William Canning 45
Jane L Canning 41
William G Canning 18
Rhoda Canning 15
Charlotte Canning 12
George H Canning 10
Frederick J Canning 8
Alfred S Canning 7
Margaretta Canning 5
Elsie Canning 3
Harry Canning 1

Just to complete the set.

1901 England Census
Name: Jane L Canning
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: North Woolwich, Essex, England
Civil parish: East Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: North Woolwich St John
Town: East Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address: 20 Francis Street

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: East Ham

Household Members:
Name Age
William Canning 45 - general labourer; Eccharghull, Hampshire
Jane L Canning 41
William G Canning 18
Rhoda Canning 15
Charlotte Canning 12
George H Canning 10
Frederick J Canning 8
Alfred S Canning 7
Margaretta Canning 5
Elsie Canning 3
Harry Canning 1

Ring family living at No. 19.

BRUMMIEJAN,
No happy they are not in the 1911 census, well Jane lucy anyway cos she died in 1904

Deaths Sep 1904 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANNING Jane 44 W. Ham 4a 171

guys/girls,
Just cross checked the 1881 and the 1891 results above, the 1881 census in the name of CANNON, it shows william CANNON aged 25 and Jane L aged 21 and a new born Jane CANNON,

The 1891 census above shows both william and Jane Lucy PANNING (CANNING) with baby Jane now 10 and william G PANNING aged 8, so i checked the FREEBMD which showed

Births Mar 1883 Canning William George
W. Ham 4a 94

so this shows both 1881 and 1891 census's are correct, now back to the original search for thier marriage...

Brilliant results so far guys, well impressed

Jason

I agree with Jan, not them in 1911. She's always born Woolwich in previous censuses.

Ozi

Not them 1911 I suspect - never mind!

Marriages Jun 1893 (>99%)
Box Robert W. Ham 4a 317
Bromley Jane W.Ham 4a 317
Cannings William W. Ham 4a 317
Worne Margaret Louisa W. Ham 4a 317

Really clutching at straws now

Births Mar 1881 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRATER Jane W. Ham 4a 50



BUT can not find a death for Alfred Prater

Do you have William's occupation? If this is them 1911 says married 18 years:

CANNINGS, William Head Married M 40 1871 Manager Of Stationer Shop Bermondsey London VIEW
CANNINGS, Jane Wife Married
18 years F 51 1860 St Georges in the East London VIEW
CANNINGS, William James Victor Son M 14 1897 Junior Clerk Official Of Patent Agent Peckham London VIEW
CANNINGS, Doris Winifred Ada Daughter F 10 1901 School Peckham London VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2555 Reference:
RG14PN2555 RG78PN86 RD27 SD5 ED12 SN126

Registration District:
Camberwell Sub District:
Peckham North Enumeration District:
12 Parish:
Camberwell

Address:
41 Hight St Peckham S E County:
London

Going back to that marriage in 1880

1881 - could be that George Rhodes married Annie but only guess work
Name: Geo. Rhodes
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Plaistow, Essex, England

Civil parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address: 3 Pragel St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Bricklayers Lab

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Geo. Rhodes 24
Ann Rhodes 28



So that might leave Jane as marrying Alfred but as I said it is pure guesswork

I think the last post re census with surname as CANNON is looking very promising

Jason

1881 ?
Name: Jane L. Cannon
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England

Civil parish: East Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address: 15 Upton Claremont St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 49a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Cannon 25
Jane L. Cannon 21
Jane Cannon

Is Cannon on image and a different place of birth for William