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Sorry Tom but I am still missing something here!

An English marriage entry (Unlike a Scottish one that gives the names, including the mother's maiden surname) only gives the father's name and occupation. So, if you don't have Elizabeth's birth certificate, how can you be sure who her parent's were especially if you haven't found the family together on any census records please?

williams occupation---ship steward
williams age born 1852c
mary born 1847
williams father alexander macdonald-- labourer
marys father robert gould --- tailor
witness john and angela peyton
address leigh street
i have a copy of my grandfathers death certificate 17/5/1945 died at 42 belmont road liverpool informant was his sister in law j maclean (married to his brother alexander )
its his wife--- my grandmother that i cannot trace birth and death

Tom,

Could I ask you to give us the answer to some of our questions please, this will hopefully help us to find Elizabeth on census.

Elizabeth's parents marriage;

What was Williams occupation?
What ages were William and Mary?
What were their fathers names and occupations?
Who were the witnesses?
What were the address given?


If you have any other info this could also help so please add it.

Fingers crossed we may find something for you.

Dee x

not found her on any census records
looking at the witness name again it could be lucy writing and copy quality not100%
i have a copy of her parents marriage certificate showing all names
tom

Guess work until Tom comes back;

1881 England Census about William McDonald
Name: William McDonald
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 48 Guilford St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Brewer
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William McDonald 40
Mary McDonald 31
Margaret McDonald 6
Anne McDonald 4
William McDonald 2
Donald McDonald
Ellen M. Hoey 15


Dee x

Tom, have you found Elizabeth on any census records with her parents please?

Looking at the marriage witnesses - Issay could be a pet name for Isabel or Isabella. (In Scotland this is fairly commonly used as an affectionate name for Isabella)


Out of curiosity, if you don't have Elizabeth's birth certificate, how do you know that her mother was Mary Ann?



What was William's occupation on his marriage certificate please?

Tom,

The info you have on the Macdonalds was really needed at the start.


Dee

lots of info thanks
elizabeth may macdonalds parents were william macdonald and mary ann gould they were married on 17/07/ 1873 at st annes stanley west derby liverpool i don`t think the staffs details are the same family
however i am still trying to find birth and death of elizabeth may maclean nee macdonald i have trawled all the dates between my mothers birth 24/ 5/1907 and the 1911 census no death recorded
the previous generation were also in liverpool so that is another reason why i don`t think the staffs people are the same
once again many thanks
tom

Lokking at the possible births in England and Wales - there are 2.

This onein Stafford and one in Kensington.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MacDonald Elizabeth Mary Stafford 6b 4

The father of the one above is a boot and shoe finisher. Here they are in 1881

Name: Elizabeth Mary Macdonald
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Worcester St Helen
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address: High St. Court 5
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Worcester
Sub-registration district: South Worcester
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Macdonald 24 Boot Finisher, b. Tewkesbury
Mary Macdonald 21 b. Stafford
Elizabeth Mary Macdonald 6 months


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2917; Folio: 111; Page: 2; GSU roll: 1341699

1891

Name: Lissie Macdonald
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: St Philip and St Jacob
Ecclesiastical parish: St Simon
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Barton Regis
Sub-registration district: St Philip
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Macdonald 34 Boot & shoe Finisher
Mary Macdonald 29
Lissie Macdonald 10
Gurby Macdonald 8
William Macdonald 7
Rosey Macdonald 5
Alice Macdonald 3
Florence Macdonald 8/12

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1980; Folio 91; Page 26; GSU roll: 6097090.

1901

Name: William Macdonald
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Tewkesbury, Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Bristol
Ecclesiastical parish: St Gabriel Fenchurch
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bristol
Sub-registration district: St Philip and St Jacob
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 79
Household Members: Name Age
William Macdonald 43 Boot finisher
Lizzie Macdonald 20 Boot finisher
Gertrude Macdonald 18
William Macdonald 17
Rose Macdonald 15
Alice Macdonald 13
Flossie Macdonald 9
Nellie Macdonald 6

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2379; Folio: 51; Page: 10.




So it looks like you may be able to eliminate that birth as the father William is still a boot finisher in 1901.

I wonder if this is Elizabeth in 1901 - same area as George in 1901?


Name: Elizabeth Macdonald
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: Liverpool St Luke
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Employment status: View image

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Mount Pleasant
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 67
Household Members: Name Age
William H Gilmour 31
Amy Gilmour 28
William Gilmour 3
Grace Keachie 29
Elizabeth Macdonald 20
Annie Caston 58
Annie Williams 22

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3419; Folio: 85; Page: 14.

yes doris was her daughterelizabeth may is my grandmother
could of died before 1911 but other details my mother told me have not all been true!
thanks

So George was a waiter in a Public House in 1901... any chance that was Elizabeths fathers place???

1901 England Census about George M Maclean
Name: George M Maclean
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Murdoch
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: Liverpool St Saviour
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Mount Pleasant
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Murdoch Maclean 59
Elizabeth Maclean 60
George M Maclean 23
Alexander Maclean 21
Euphemia Maclean 13


Dee x

Hi Thomas,

there is a tree on ancestry and i can see Doris born 1907.... was she Elizabeth Mays daughter?

I'm confused because your last message states that the Aunt bought your mother up as her mother had died...... does that mean that Elizabeth may had died prior to the 1911 census?/


Confused.com.. LOL!!


Dee x

wiliiam macdonald was a publican
witness names not clear looks like
james possley ?
issay macdonald ?
george william crofts
on 1911 census it shows my mother living with her grandfather @ 94 myrtle street liverpool
which agrees with what my mother told me she was brought up by her aunt(euphemia) as her mother had died and her father was at sea. cannot find death certicate
also elizabeth macdonald/ macleann cannot be found on 1891/1901/1911 census
a mystery

Sorry Thomas,

looks like our posts crossed.

Are the witnesses of any help on the marriage cert?


Dee x

Thomas,

what was Elizabeths fathers name on the marriage certificate and what was his occupation?

If we find her on census it maybe easier to trace a birth registration.


Dee x

unable to validate 1950 death certificate as it shows she is the widow of ????? maclean no christian entered on certificate
her fathers name was william macdonald
marriage certificate shows the name as may and my mothers birth certificate says mothers name elizabeth may maclean formerley macdonald
regarding the dates on the death certificate she died 7/1/1956 age 73 so she could of been 74 later that year so could be born in 1882

I cannot see the death certificate that you refer to.
If she were 24 in 1906, she was born in 1881/1882.
This is slightly out for age, but in 1956:
Elizabeth Maclean
Death Registration Month/Year: 1956
Age at death (estimated): 73
Registration district: Liverpool North
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 400
Did she definitely stay in Liverpool?
Thanks

Sorry, I am not clear what you want.
Do you believe the 1950 certificate to be the wrong one?
On the marriage certificate what is her Father's name?
She is also recorded om free bmd for marriage as Elizabeth Mary. Do you know which one is accurate?
What are the details on your Mother's birth certificate?
Thanks

trying to find birth and death details of my grandmother maternal side elizabeth may maclean nee macdonald have found marriage certificate- married on 3/7/1906 to george malcolm maclean and stated age of 24 at st john the evangilist -county of lancaster found 1 death certicate on 7/1/1950 liverpool shows her as widow of------------ maclean does not state his christian name!! can anyone help