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Hi all
Thanks for the extra information.

Rootsgatherer: you are not stating the obvious - I've only just started researching the Scottish side of my family so didn't know about RCEs. Will check! Your example is interesting. Obviously they all led tangled lives at that time!

Helen: I too found those three Helen Wilson Hendersons and as you say they don't seem to be the right ones. I feel sure that the trail we are on now (daughter of Alexander Henderson and Catherine Ross) is the most promising. Thanks for the info about Sophia. I didn't think she could be a grandchild as the ages didn't add up. There were a couple of other "grandchildren" that I'll need to research too when I've confirmed Helen's birth to my satisfaction!

Eric: Thanks for your post. I'll send you a PM!

Thanks again to everyone for your help.
Regards
Christine

Just out of interest:

There is a Sophia MacRidd Ross mentioned on the 1881 census … supposedly grand-daughter to the head of the house.

Did a bit of checking up and it’s looking like she could be another daughter of Catherine Ross to a David McKiddie. The fact she carries two surnames, points to her being possibly illegitimate.

Sophia Ross or McKiddie
9th February 1858
County: Moray
District: Drainie

There appear to be only three - Helen Wilson Henderson's registered on Scotlandspeople between 1865 and 1875.

All Helen Wilson Henderson: Born:

28th April 1870, St Nicholas, Aberdeen
Mother: Mary Henderson or Gray

14th June 1872, Liberton, Midlothian
Father: John Henderson
Mother: Janet Moffat

25th May 1873, Edinburgh, Midlothian
Father: Peter Henderson
Mother: Helen Wilson

None of them belonging to your research.

Could be although your Helen did have a middle name - Wilson ... it just wasn't registered on the birth certificate.

Christine - sorry if I am stating the obvious here but did you check on the birth entry that you have found to see if there was a RCE (Register of Corrected Entries)? I have an example of a lady who had 4 children to the same man. With the first 2 she registered them in her maiden surname then went to court to prove paternity. With the next 2 she must have got tired of the hassle and just gave them the father's surname as a middle name. All 4 were known throughout their lives by her maiden surname. She later went on to have another child with the man that she was housekeeper to. This child's birth was registered in the father's name (as he was present to sign the register) but she married using her mother's maiden surname. In total she had 7 children and never married any of the father's although they were all free to marry - must be a trait of the North East of Scotland at that time!!

Hello Christine,
I have just sent you a PM with my contact details.

Took an interest in this one as Henderson is my direct family line.

Found your Helen Henderson 1870 which indicates that Catherine Ross and Alexander Henderson were not married at this time.

Have some other details that I can share with you also in regards to Alexander Henderson (father of Helen).

Regards,
Eric
Metung, Australia

Hi
Thanks everyone so much for all your help on this. Since Vanessa explained that the list of names posted by Helen was in fact all the children with the parents Alexander Henderson and Catherine Ross, I'm growing more convinced that this is the one. But I still have a couple of doubts!
I've looked up the birth of Helen Henderson registered in Drainie, Elgin on Scotland's People and indeed there is no marriage date for the parents - and it even states "illegitimate" after Helen's name, but it only has her name as "Helen Henderson" and yet in other places, it is recorded as "Helen Wilson Bruce". It seems strange that the "Wilson" is not on the birth records but turns up later. She is "Helen Wilson Bruce, m.s Henderson" on the birth records of her son William Slater Bruce in 1897 in Elgin and again on the records of her son's marriage in 1929.

The father Alexander is described as a Labourer on various censuses but as "seaman, merchant services" at the time of his daughter's marriage in 1891 (when he would've been about 50) and then back to Labourer again in the 1901 census. Maybe this is not as much of a spanner in the works as the lack of the middle name "Wilson" for Helen though.

I'd be really grateful for any further thoughts/ideas on this, and thanks again for your help so far.
Regards
Christine
(Silverbirch)

Not necessarily the case of where a father can't register a birth ... the child is then registered under the mother's name.

Have several instances of known married couples where the mother registered the birth

Think it may be the case of the father having to be present at the registering of an illigitimate birth in order for his surname to be registered for the baby.


If you were to have a look at Helen's birth certificate, it would also register the date of marriage for the parents. Obviously, this would put to rest the question over whether they were married .. or not.

1881 Census - Doesn't look like Alexander and Catherine are married then (they may have married Later)

Name: Alexander Henderson
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Duffus, Morayshire
Registration Number: 130
Registration district: Drainie
Civil parish: Drainie
County: Moray
Address: No. 8 Queens Lane
Occupation: Labourer
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 89
Line: 17
Roll: cssct1881_38
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Henderson 40
Catherine Ross 41 <<<<<<<<<Housekeeper
George Henderson 14
Ann Henderson 12
Helen Henderson 10
Catherine Henderson 8
Jamima Henderson 6
Peter Henderson 4
Jane Henderson 1
William Shearn 14 Grandchild
Catherine Smith 1 Grandchild
Alexr Smith 17 Nephew

Source Citation: Parish: Drainie; ED: 2; Page: 16; Line: 17; Roll cssct1881_38; Year: 1881.


1871

Name: Alexander Henderson
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Hopeman, Morayshire
Registration Number: 130
Registration district: Drainie
Civil parish: Drainie
County: Moray
Address: Part Of Lossiemouth
Occupation: Age Lab
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 52
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1871_24
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Henderson 32
Catherine Ross 33 <<<<<<<<<<<Relationship Servant
Sophia MacRidd Ross 15 <<<<<<<<<Grandaughter
Margaret Henderson 9
Alexander Henderson 4
George Henderson 4
Ann Henderson 2
Hellen Henderson 9 Mo

Source Citation: Parish: Drainie; ED: 1; Page: 10; Line: 1; Roll CSSCT1871_24; Year: 1871.


If Alexander wasn't able to registrer Helen's birth the she would be registered as Ross.

Have you looked for the births of the other children on Scotlandspeople?

Since you mention the 1901 census details are correct, I am assuming you know this is definitely your Helen Henderson with her children and husband and father, Alexander Henderson (born Duffus, Elginshire) living with them.

The 1901 census reads: Helen Bruce. (not Helen Henderson … this is only indicated by LadyKira as an pointer to this person being one and the same)

In this census, Helen herself, states she was born in Drainie, Elginshire, which is in the county of Moray.

The birth details for the likely Helen Henderson are registered in Drainie, Moray.

All these clues are adding up nicely to this being your Helen Henderson.

Further evidence might be found by tracing Helen and her father, Alexander through all the census. See if Alexander’s occupation matches up with the 1901 census.

Looked through Scotlandspeople for a marriage for Alexander Henderson and Catherine Ross … no matches coming up. Also no death registered for Catherine Henderson / Ross (cross ref names) Wondering if they were in fact married.

Hi Silverbirch

Helen is just referring to the 1901 census but what she has posted is all births(christenings) listed for children with parents Alexander & Catherine.

With a matching area, looks almost a sure bet this is your girl :0)

Hi Helen
Thanks for the information, which is very interesting - but confusing! My Helen W. Henderson would have been Helen W Bruce by the time of the 1901 census as she married John Bruce in 1891 so although this seems very likely (same parents' names and right year of birth for Helen) it surely must be a coincidence? Curiouser and curiouser......

Will look at it again tomorrow!
Regards
Christine

Looks like the Helen Henderson mentioned in the 1901 census could be the correct one. (Helen says she was born in Drainie, Elginshire .. County: Moray)


Father: Alexander Henderson,
Mother: Catherine Ross


1. ANN HENDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 30 MAY 1868 Drainie, Moray, Scotland
2. JOHN ALEXANDER HENDERSON OR ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 02 JUL 1864 Drainie, Moray, Scotland
3. MARGARET HENDERSON OR ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 03 DEC 1861 Drainie, Moray, Scotland
4. HELEN HENDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 24 JUN 1870 Drainie, Moray, Scotland
5. JEMIMA HENDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 31 JUL 1874 Drainie, Moray, Scotland
6. GEORGE HENDERSON OR ROSS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 07 APR 1866 Drainie, Moray, Scotland
7. CATHERINE HENDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 18 JUN 1872 Drainie, Moray, Scotland

Helen's birth is an extracted birth record ... so will be on Scotlandspeople.

Don't know why people put conflicting places of birth on census ... for instance, my ancestor says she was born in Inverurie in Aberdeenshire on one census... and Glasgow in Lanarkshire on the following.

It's possible. I'm not ruling anything out! It could also be that the one I found with just a mother recorded (Mary) is in fact the right one and she was then (informally or formally) adopted by Alexander and Catharine Henderson, but that one doesn't feel right to me somehow. I'm interested in all options though.

Is it possible that Alexander married twice? i88i looks possible to me but I am not an expert on Scotland.

Hi LadyKira

Thanks very much for your help.
Yes the last one from the 1901 census is her (with husband John) but I just can't find her birth recorded. I think the others you mentioned are not the right ones as I'm fairly sure I've got the right marriage cert which gives her husband as John and parents as Catharine and Alexander.
Regards
Christine

1901 Scotland Census
about Helen Bruce
Name: Helen Bruce
[Helen Henderson]
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : John
Father's Name: Alexander
Gender: Female
Where born: Drainie, Elginshire
Registration Number: 168/1
Registration district: St Nicholas
Civil parish: Aberdeen St Clements
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 30 Miller Street
ED: 37
Household schedule number: 130
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1901_53
Household Members: Name Age
John Bruce 30
Helen Bruce 30
Alexander Bruce 5
William Bruce 3
Evelyn Bruce 1
Charles Bruce 1 mo
Alexander Henderson 61

possible

1881 Scotland Census
about Helen W Henderson
Name: Helen W Henderson
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: Alexander
Mother's Name: Agnes
Gender: Female
Where born: Mertoun, Berwick
Registration Number: 793
Registration district: Kelso
Civil parish: Kelso
County: Roxburghshire
Address: Farm Cottage
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 24
Line: 4
Roll: cssct1881_318
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Henderson 38
Agnes Henderson 40
John Henderson 15
Helen W Henderson 13
James T Henderson 11
Mary Ann Henderson 9
Elizabeth Henderson 7
Agnes Henderson 5
Alexander Henderson 3
Andrew M Henderson 1
N K 16 Mo

There is an earlier Helen
born Kincardine,
1861 Scotland Census
about Helen Wilson Henderson
Name: Helen Wilson Henderson
[Helen Wilson Watson]
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : William
Mother's Name: Jane Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Kincardine, Perth Re
Registration Number: 371
Registration district: Lecropt
Civil parish: Lecropt
County: Perthshire
Address: Craigarnhall
Occupation: Farmer Wife
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 9
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1861_50
Household Members: Name Age
William Henderson 50
Helen Wilson Henderson 36
Jane Henderson 18
Aud W Henderson 11
James Henderson 10
Thos W Henderson 4
Jane Charles Watson 81
Eliza Stewart 40
Mary Mclaren 20
Mary A Ranken 20
Allan Mcnaughton 35
Duncan Mclaren 19
Arch Cameron 19
Paul Doeg 15
Patrick Niver 17
George Tisher 35
John Robertson 65

There is a private tree on Ancestry which gives

Helen Wilson Henderson
Born: 1872 in Liberton Edinburgh

Hi, I'm trying to find a record of the above person's birth in Kincardineshire around 1870. I have found her marriage to John Urquhart Bruce on 18/9/1891, which gives her parents as Alexander Henderson and Catharine Henderson (nee Ross) but I can only find two Helen Wilson Hendersons on Scotland's People, both of which seem not to be the right one.

Do there tend to be gaps in the records on SP or am I managing to miss it? One looked likely as the birth was registered in the St. Nicholas district of Aberdeen (where their marriage was registered) but only has a mother recorded (who is not Catharine).

I got the place of birth as Kincardine from a census.

Any help/ideas greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much.