Find Ancestors

Hi I’m really stuck with this couple. I want to order a birth cert for the wife and a death cert for the husband but I can’t find either of them on freebmd.

Wife is Laura Allchin, found her christening on IGI Apr 1852, Milton next Sittingbourne, Kent but unable to find GRO index for birth. (Also have her death cert - Feb 1928, Dartford).
Husband is Charles William Culmer, have his birth cert (Sep 1850, Dartford) and their marriage cert (March 1872, Bermondsey) but can find no record of his death!! He is on 1891 census with wife and family in Dartford, but not 1901 or 1911.

I know their eldest son emigrated to US with his family in 1914 (thanks to help from lovely people on Genes a few months ago) but haven’t found any trace of him going with them.

I’ve tried various different spellings for both but still no luck. Would really appreciate any suggestions please as I don’t know where to look next.

Thank you, Jane

Hi Jane,

I don't see a birth registration for Laura, but remember that strick registration was really enforced until 1875.... although registration was started in 1837 it was the parishes responsability to track down births and very often many were not.


Dee x

Laura is still stating she is married in 1901...... so where was hubby?


Dee x

Hi Dee

Thanks, didn't know about 1875. Just want to trace her family back and thought birth cert would be useful.
Don't know where hubby was in 1901. Her death cert stated widow. But I have birth cert for daughter born 1893 and no father listed, but when daughter married her surname had changed from Culmer!! So don't know where he went. Really frustrating!

Thanks Jane

It states Laura is a widow on the 1911.

Hi Greensleeves

I saw that one and may have to send for it, but age isn't quite right. I suppose that probably wasn't unusual though.

Thanks Jane

Name: Laura Allchin
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 18 Apr 1852
Baptism/Christening Place: Parish Church of Milton-next-Sittingbourne, Milton-next-Sittingbourne, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: George Allchin
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Letitia Allchin
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01262-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1835502
Reference Number: item 1
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Think the death for charles that greensleeves found is probably this one?????.

1901

Name: Charles Culmer
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Monkton, Kent, England

Civil parish: Garlinge
Ecclesiastical parish: Westbrook
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Thanet
Sub-registration district: Margate
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Culmer 48
Emma Culmer 46
George Culmer 16
Frederick Culmer 12
Edith Culmer 9
Edward Culmer 7
Arthur Culmer 4
Georgina Culmer 2


richard

Hi Susan and safc

Can't understand why I can't find his death listed as his wife states she is a widow, unless the death found by Greensleeves is him and the age is wrong.

That looks like the christening record I found. Had hoped to get birth cert and check her mother's maiden name, think it was Letitia Straitfield but haven't had much luck with that branch of the tree and thought cert would help.

Thank Jane

Marriages Dec 1850 (>99%)
Allchin George Medway 5 558
Straitfield Leititia Medway 5 558
Straitfield Letitia Medway 5 558
Straitfield Loetitia Medway 5 558

Hi Richard

I think you're right which means it isn't my Charles!

Thanks Jane

Hi safc

Think I've found George and Letitia on 1851 census., but later censuses have different names for the daughters! Not had much luck finding Letitia Straitfield's family on 1841 census though.

Thanks Jane

Name: Sarah Latitia Alchin
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 31 Dec 1854
Baptism/Christening Place: Milton-next-Sittingbourne, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: George Alchin
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Latitia
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01321-9
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1473711
Reference Number: 214
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Fanny Allchin
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 28 Aug 1853
Baptism/Christening Place: Parish Church of Milton-next-Sittingbourne, Milton-next-Sittingbourne, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: George Allchin
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Letitia Allchin
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01262-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1835502
Reference Number: item 1 p 200
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Hi safc

Have found Sarah L Bolton and son living with George and Letitia on 1881 census. Could be same daughter, but Letita on 1861and Lauria on 1871?? suppose could have used different names or just been spelled wrong. Wish they had registered the births properly though so I could order the cert! And still don't know what happened to Laura's husband!

Thanks Jane

Have to go back to work now but will check back later just in case anyone has added anything.
Jane x

Thank you very much everyone who helped me last week, at least I now know that birth reg wasn’t compulsory in 1850s. Can anyone tell me whether parish records for births would contain info such as address and father’s occupation the same as a birth certificate would or is just the info found on familysearch?
I’m still unable to find any trace of Charles William Culmer (b1850) after the 1891 census – he just seems to have dropped off the face of the earth! If anyone can suggest anywhere else I can look for him I would be really grateful.
Thank you, Jane

Jane


Birth registration was compulsory from July 1 1837 ...... the problem was that it was the Registrar's responsibility to find out about a birth, then go to the mother and get the details to fill out the certificate.


Not easy to do!! Many many births were missed


The law was changed in mid-1874 so that the onus was put on the Mother to go and register the birth within 6 weeks ...... or be fined.


Many births still were not registered PLUS some mothers who missed the deadline registered their baby with a later birth date.


Last week, one lady on GR who had been searching for a registration for a relative posted that she had eventually found it in 1954. He had been born in 1899! No change in birth date on that one fortunately!!



Secondly, the baptism record should show the father's name, and may show his occupation, and the address at which they were living.



Thirdly, have you considered the possibility that Charles William may have left the family, and then re-married or took up with another woman???


If this happened, divorce was usually not obtained ......... it was very expensive and extremely difficult

BUT the woman may well describe herself to everyone as a Widow .....perhaps telling them that husand had died in another town while on a trip. Much more respectable to be a Widow, than a deserted wife.


Remember that the much of the information given on a death certificate is only that which is known to the informant ................ if the informant was told that xxxxx was a widow, then that is what would be entered.


The only facts that you can depend on on a death certificate are :- date, place and cause of death; name and address of doctor; and , name, address and relationship of informant.

Everything else is hearsay!





sylvia

Hi Sylvia
Thanks for all that information. I will have to plan a visit to Kent soon to look for the baptism records. It seems that Laura had a number of sisters and I can't find GRO references for any of them.

I'm tearing my hair out with Charles William Culmer. I did wonder if he had remarried but can't find any record of one. I know that when his? youngest daughter married she had a different maiden name which meant I had a lot of trouble finding it!

I just can't find any record of his death unless he is still alive which would make him 160!!

Thanks again, Jane

he may not have remarried


... that would be bigamy ......... although some husbands who deserted their first wife did later marry bigamously



he could also have changed his name.



There is a Charles Culmer who was born in 1852/3 in Kent ................. so you have to be careful of that one.




sylvia