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Thanks Rose for that missing death. It was thought in the family that Rose was pregnant when she married, but that was a long time ago before we knew about the name being Howden. Until then we were only looking for Levertons!!. Once you get the right info it's amazing how history progresses.

I think that a still birth was recorded as a death only and any child that lived even for just a very, very short while was registered for birth & death.

Interesting that Robert's death was registered. I didn't know that occurred for a stillbirth.

Rose

Possible missing child:

Births Mar 1899
Howden Elsie Gladys M Medway 2a 682
Deaths Sep 1899
Howden Elsie Gladys M 0 Medway 2a 468

Rose

You're welcome! These are the funnest ones.

JaneyCanuck
name-shifting deserters R us

;)

Hi all- thanks for the replies. I think the nail has been hit on the head. We were not sure if 1 or 2 people. But it looks def like 1 person & a name change. John Leverton ( as we knew him) just worked for Rustons in Lincoln & no WW1 service that anyone knows about. Rustons are the biggest employer in the county & lots of the later family members worked there too including young Ernest, Jack, Charlie maybe, Charlies daughter Ann & possilby two of the yougest three daughters of John. John & Rose also had another child, Robert, stillborn November 1911, but I do not know about the one shown died on 1911 census as this is not Robert. I wondered if the name change might have been E(a)rnest/ John's mothers maiden name too. I will check out all of the military refs.
We have cousins & second cousins all digging around on this. Well done everyone - big pat on the back and a drink in at the bar for you all!!!
Thanks again for breaking down my brick wall of 15yrs standing. My husband had given up on it but i wouldn't let it lie. Bye & Regards to all. xx

I sent her a PM earlier. Hasn't been read yet.

Edit: Looks like it's been read now.

Rose

Oh well that's a relief! I mean, not for your grandmother, probably. ... Although ... it would have been for one of my grandmothers with a husband in the military ...

I think what Ancestry is calling WWI records is just the existing records as they become available from whoever has them? Our resident military expert has been explaining it to me. That grfather of mine was apparently discharged in 1924 (oh, did I mention he used a fake name too? completely other side of the family, and no idea why in his case), and they aren't up to then yet.

Anybody heard from Linda??

Janey,

One of these days I'll get around to taking a look at your Moncks. I think I have some in my tree.

I wouldn't read too much into Ernest's WW1 records being on Ancestry. My great grandmother's first husband's records are there too, even though he died in 1911.

Rose

Rose! Will you figure out how my Ernest chose his surname now??

;)

Good deduction there.

Gael, I don't think that is our Ernest Howden -- he didn't have a middle initial at birth or marriage, if we have the right birth, and there was an Ernest W born in Gainsborough in 1895. I do think ours was John Leverton by then -- although if conscripted or re-enrolled, he may have been in WWI under his real name ...

Interesting how Ernest chose his surname......

Leverton was where his father was born.

1881 England Census
about Thomas Howden
Name: Thomas Howden
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Leverton, Lincoln, England

Civil parish: Bennington By Boston
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England

Condition as to marriage: Married
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Bricklayer Journeyman
Registration district: Boston
Sub-registration district: Bennington
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Howden 35
Mary Howden 41
Margaret Florence Howden 13
Robert Howden 11
Mary Howden 7
Ernest Howden 5
Elizabeth Alice Howden 2

Rose

Rose

hi Linda,

Would this be your Ernest ??

Howden, Ernest W - 2nd Corporal Royal Engineers Lincolnshire Yeomanry

http://www.beckingham-northnotts.org.uk/history/rollofhonour.html

Catch up, Choccy. ;)

I have that Howden birth right up near the beginning.

And now I've found a match for my Ernest Hill/Monck, it seems!

At least my Ernest kept his given names. ;)


Thanks for the 1911 details, you two.

I do hope Linda comes back soon. Me, I gotta catch some winks.

On the 1911 census it says married twelve years, 5 children born, 4 living.

I think I may have your answer.


British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
about Ernest Howden
Name: Ernest Howden
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Age at Enlistment: 19
Birth Parish: Bena??
Birth County: Linco??
Document Year: 1895
Regimental Number: 28849
Regiment Name: Royal Engine??
Number of Images: 15


On the third page of the record images at Ancestry -- not entirely legible, but it goes like this.

? service to 12 years with color (date may be 98)
Promoted ? Aug 98
Promoted Corp Jan ?
Promoted Sgt 1 July 04

>> Deserted Sgt 16-8-05


And there I think you have it.

Yup. On the next page we have Wife Rose, followed by her info: Rose Chilton, Chatham 3-11-98 (that will be the actual marriage date). One child is recorded: Ernest, Bermuda.

The next page is more info about his desertion having to do with moneys owing. There is quite a lot more -- the court of inquiry held in Bermuda, many pages.


The thing is that this record is under 1914-1920 at Ancestry, but seems to relate to his earlier service. Did he re-enrol / get conscripted for WWI?

In any event, I think you've joined the club of name-shifting by military desertion. ;)



Name: John Leverton
Death Registration Month/Year: 1943
Age at death (estimated): 67 = c1875/6
Registration district: Lincoln
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 502

Name: Rose M Leverton
Death Registration Month/Year: 1963
Age at death (estimated): 87 = c1875/6
Registration district: Lincoln
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 407

?

1911 census -


LEVERTON, John Head Married M 35 1876 Clerk Foreman's Assistants Boston Lincs VIEW
LEVERTON, Rose Wife Married F 35 1876 Gellingham Kent VIEW
LEVERTON, Ernest Son M 9 1902 Jamaica West Indies VIEW
LEVERTON, Charlie Son M 3 1908 St Botolphs Lincoln VIEW
LEVERTON, Norah Daughter F 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911 St Botolphs Lincoln VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
19728 Reference:
RG14PN19728 RG78PN1182 RD418 SD2 ED9 SN432

Registration District:
Lincoln Sub District:
Lincoln Home Enumeration District:
9 Parish:
Lincoln

Address:
40 Henley Street Lincoln County:
Lincolnshire

Well, I'd be suspecting a name change, pending seeing what the 1911 says about John.

My famous (hereabouts) gr-grfather went into the military a Hill about 1873 and came out a Monck, or became a Monck shortly after. A couple of years after I'd got his identity figured out (but had no idea about the reason for the name shift), a son of a cousin of my mum recounted what his mother (and apparently no one else) had been told by her grandfather: he had deserted from the British military in India after 5 years, when the promised discharge turned into deployment to Afghanistan (second Anglo-Afghan war started 1878).

The only actual war going on around 1900 was the Anglo-Boer war, and there is no Ernest Howden (or John Leverton) listed in the IY - but he could have been regular military.

http://www.britishmedals.us/files/iyh.htm


There is also a long break between the birth of Norah and the birth of the last two children. Could John Leverton have been active in WWI?

births post 1911

Births Jun 1917
Leverton Barbara Chilton Lincoln 7a 758
Births Sep 1918
Leverton Margery Chilton Lincoln 7a 738

Is Rose with Leverton in the 1911 census? Again, it isn't clear ...


1911

LEVERTON ROSE 1876 35 Lincoln Lincolnshire
LEVERTON JOHN 1876 35
LEVERTON ERNEST 1902
LEVERTON CHARLIE 1908 3
LEVERTON NORAH 1910 11 MONTHS


Do you have birth certificates?

Births Sep 1907
LEVERTON Charlie Howden Lincoln 7a 492

I'd want to see what that one says!


This seems likely to be Ernest, or do you have this?

Births Dec 1875
Howden Ernest Boston 7a 393

If the father's names on birth and marriage certificates match,that's him.

Do you have the 1898 Howden-Chilton marriage certificate?

Marriages Dec 1898
Chilton Rose Medway 2a 1268
Howden Ernest Medway 2a 1268

-- It's hard to tell from what you've said, since "December 1898" could be a date or could just refer to the quarter of the marriage.

The cert should give Ernest's father's name -- but is it what happened to Ernest after the marriage that you're looking for?


I don't understand this:

"Rose's 13 yr marriage was to John Leverton & not Ernest Howden"

She married Howden, but was immediately estranged from Howden and partnered with Leverton? Or do you think they are the same person?

- edit -
I get it - you're quoting the 1911 census: she was married to Leverton for 13 years per that census.

I don't pay for access. Can you give the details for John Leverton -- place of birth, occupatoin -- from the 1911?

We are looking for E(a)rnest Howden C b1876 Lincolnshire & married Rose Martha Chilton in Medway Kent December 1898. Rose travelled to Bermuda in 1900 as Rose Howden. She had 2 children out there - Ernest 1901 & Jack 1904 both registered in Army Births, so this implies that E(a)rnest b 1876 was in the Army. The family returned to UK in 1905 & several more children born (the last one Margery in 1918) By 1911 census young Ernest b 1901 had changed his surname to Leverton; Rose's 13 yr marriage was to John Leverton & not Ernest Howden; & her 2nd son Jack lived in Gillingham Kent with his grandmother (Ann Chilton) & his name was still Jack Howden. Any links? Any ideas? Cant find any army info on E Howden either. Please contact us. Thanks