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Yes I have , Michael -that one was a shopman in 1861 and his father was William

Have you discounted this one ??

,He could have remarried..

1881

John SEYMOUR Head M Male 40 High Laver, Essex, England General Laborer
Lucy SEYMOUR Wife M Female 25 Portsea, Hampshire, England
Ellen SEYMOUR Daur Female 5 Aldershot, Hampshire, England Scholar
John SEYMOUR Son Male 4 Shorncliffe, Kent, England Scholar

Dwelling Northbrook St
Census Place Portsea, Hampshire, England

Thanks for your interest Michael -I do have all this -just need (hopefully ) to confirm that the John Seymour I found in 1851 is the right one

I know you probably have this but it helps for reference....

1881

George BERRIMAN Head M Male 74 Sutton Scotney, Hampshire, England Retired Farmer
Ann BERRIMAN Wife M Female 62 Hillcot, Wiltshire, England
Sarah Ann BERRIMAN Daughter U Female 27 Wonston, Hampshire, England Milliner
>>>>>>>>Edwin George SEYMOUR Grandson U Male 12 Sutton Scotney, Hampshire, England Scholar
Charles ARNOTT Boarder M Male 80 Monmouth, Monmouth, England (60) Annuity
Eliza Ann BARNES Boarder U Female 20 Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales Lady
Robert Fox PRANCE Visitor U Male 22 Hounslow, Middlesex, England Commercial Trav (Timber)


Dwelling 3 Arragon Terrace
Census Place Twickenham, Middlesex, England

Marriages Dec 1868

Berriman Ellen Newington 1d 308
Seymour John Newington 1d 308

Ellen's death (not same quarter so didn't die in childbirth



Deaths Sep 1869
Seymour Ellen -27 - Winchester 2c 57

Edwins Birth

Births Mar 1869
Seymour Edwin George - Winchester 2c 91

No, Jan I dont have Edwins birth cert but given the very short interval (less than 3 months) between Edwins birth (bap7/2/1869) and the marriage I dont think it is likely to have changed

Hi Gillian,the John and James thingy,I thought maybe James could actually be John therefore it would be John Seymour senior with John Seymour junior if you get my drift.


They seemed to like swapping their names about,Ithink they liked to try and confuse us.

Maryb

Do you have Edwin's birth cert to see if fathers occupation is still the same?

Yes, Mary, that is my Ellen Berriman but it was John Seymours father who was said to be a farm bailiff at the time of their marriage, Not sure where the John/James comment fits in

Is this your Ellen Berriman 1842 died J/A/S 1869.
Parents George 1807 born Sutton Scotney hampshire and Ann.

1851George was farm bailiff.

1871 George a carrier at coal merchants

1881 George a retired farmer.

So was John born about same time?

Maryb

Just a thought many times in the past John/James were one in the same.

Thanks, Flick for taking the trouble to read and reply
No I have no concrete evidence at all for John's place of birth -the 1851 one was the ONLY one I could find with a father James born at the right time
Tho given Ellens family were from generations born in Wonston Hants it does seem more than likely that John was from Hants also but who knows?

Perhaps he invented his father when he married?

Do you have any evidence other than 1871 about John's place of birth?

Can anyone with fresh eyes please help with the origins of John Seymour? He married 19/10/1868 St Peters Walworth Ellen Berriman when his occupation was shown as Coachman and his father as James Seymour (Farm Bailiff) .They were both living at 133 Hill St Walworth , the home of the 2 witnesses Thomas and Martha Adams. Martha was an aunt to Ellen on her mothers side so the witnesses are of no help regarding John

I have found a John Seymour in 1851, born Milton Hants son of James and Ann but I have followed that James thro the censuses and he was never a Farm Bailiff but a Carter
John is not with them 1861 nor can I find him elsewhere but in 1871 there is a John SEYMORE 29 Coachman b Lymington (reg dist for Milton) living Longstock Hants though he shows himself as single not Wid as he should be since Ellen died 1869 during or shortly after giving birth to Edwin George Seymour
I have all I need on the Berrimans who brought up Edwin George -just need to locate his father with certainty
Any help gratefully recd