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Always nice to see a good result, Craig.
That's what you call good team work!
Catherine

Well, mystery solved.
I've got the birth certificate for mary Hannah Horton. Her mother is Hannah Horton, formerly Wileman, so Ann Wileman was Hannah's daughter before she married Thomas Horton. Thanks all so much for the help!

Craig

Wow, I think you've cracked it.
That's brilliant, you guys are quicker than Scooby Doo's gang!

Possible siblings:-

MARY ANN WILEMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 20 JUL 1809
Gender: Female Christening: 28 DEC 1809 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England

ELIZABETH WILEMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 05 JAN 1814 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England


possible marriage:-
THOMAS WILEMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 15 SEP 1808 Edgbaston, Warwick, England
Spouse: HANNAH TURVEY

Hannah's birth:-

HANNAH WILEMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 15 AUG 1811
Gender: Female Christening: 27 DEC 1811 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father: THOMAS WILEMAN
Mother: HANNAH

This looks to be Thomas and Hannah's marriage:-

THOMAS HORTON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 12 APR 1835 Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick, England
Spouse: HANNAH WELEMAN

.............so married after the birth of Ann.

A-ha! I think you may be on to something. I was also considering the possibility of Hannah being Thomas Wileman's daughter in law??
I'll pop to the register office in my lunch break and get another birth certificate

The 1841 census showing the Horton family:-

Hannah Harton abt 1816 Warwickshire, England Birmingham, Warwickshire
Thomas Harton abt 1821 Warwickshire, England Birmingham, Warwickshire
Ann Harton abt 1832 Warwickshire, England Birmingham, Warwickshire
Lucy Harton abt 1839 Warwickshire, England Birmingham, Warwickshire
Mary Ann Harton abt 1840 Warwickshire, England Birmingham, Warwickshire

I would agree that there is a distinct possibility that Hannah is Thomas Wileman's daughter and that Ann is her illegitimate daughter, so her maiden name would be Wileman.

Craig -- there is the chance that Ann Horton was born before Hannah married Thomas Horton -- there is a 5y gap of ages between Thomas and Hannah -- Could Hannah been married before or was she a single mother with the surname of Wileman ??

If you purchase the birth cert of one of Thomas and Hannahs children you may find an answer.

This one fairly easy to find

Mary Hannah Horton Dec Q 1849 Birmingham 16 284

Mavis

On the 1841

Name: Thomas Wileman
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Where born: Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Hundred: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: Lady Wood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Wileman 50


with the Horton family

Thomas, hannah, Ann, Lucy and mary Ann...mistranscribed as Harton

at Nelson Street West

Would it be possible that Thomas Wileman is Hannah's father and Ann is her illegitimate daughter?

Maureen

Yes, that's them.
I wonder if obtaining the birth certificate of one of Sarah Ann's siblings might throw a bit more light on the mystery...

Is this them 1851?

Name: Thomas Wileman
Age: 61
Estimated birth year: abt 1790
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Cabinet Maker

Condition as to marriage: Widower

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: Lady Wood
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 145
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Horton 33 born: Wellsbourne, Warwickshire
Hannah Horton 38 born: Birmingham, Warwickshire
Ann Horton 18
Lucy Horton 12
Ellen Horton 7
Sarah Horton 5
Charles Horton 2
Mary Hannah Horton 1
Thomas Wileman 61

Didn't realize until I saw the census that Ann was only 18yrs old.

Could be a possibility, Catherine, thanks for that. However, on the 1851 census (and 1841), they are all in Birmingham. Ann is listed still as Horton; Thomas Wileman is the lodger, aged 60. He died in 1853.

Craig

Could be that Ann Norton married Thomas Wileman:-

Marriages Jun 1848 (>99%)
EALES Ann Hinckley 15 127
Gisborn George Hinckley 15 127
xxxx Norton Ann Harrold Hinckley 15 127 (Ann Holliday Horton ?)
SMITH Mary Hinckley 15 127
Weston Martha Hinckley 15 127
WESTON Mary Hinckley 15 127
xxxx Wileman Thomas Hinckley 15 127
Wilson Daniel Hinckley 15 127
WILSON John Hinckley 15 127
The district Hinckley spans the boundaries of the counties of Leicestershire and Warwickshire

Hi Chris,
the informant was Sarah's mother Ann

Craig

Craig

Who was the informant at Sarah Ann's birth?

The more distant the 'permitted' relationship of informant to the child, then the more likelyhood there is of incorrect information being given at the time of registration.

Chris

I was recently researching my maternal g g grandmother, Sarah Ann Litherland (née Doyle) born in Birmingham in 1852. I knew her parents were Henry and Ann Doyle, living in Birmingham. I looked for their marriage on FreeBMD and found an entry for Henry Doyle and Ann Holliday Wileman, 1851 in King's Norton (in Birmingham). This is where the mystery starts: I received Sarah Ann Doyle's birth certificate and the parents are listed as Henry Doyle and Ann, formerly Horton. Numerous searches for a marriage for Ann Horton and Henry Doyle have produced no results. I then consulted the 1841 and 1851 censuses looking for Ann Horton, and I did find her and her family, living in Birmingham... and there at the bottom of the family members, listed as lodger is a Thomas Wileman (a widower, aged 50 in 1841).
To me it seems clear that there's some link. The mystery is: why is Ann Horton listed on Sarah Ann Doyle's b certificate as her mother, and yet the only Ann I can find who married Henry Doyle is Ann Wileman. And then add Thomas Wileman to the mix and now my head is spinning. Can anyone please offer any suggestions to go about solving this mystery....?
Regards
Craig