Find Ancestors

Vicky,
I have moved your message over to my 'Hawes, London' thread as that is where everyone else has been following the Gladys/Doris story.
I have posted a reply there. Let me know if you cannot find it.
Glynis.

Just to keep all you wonderful helpers up to date on this thread:
I sent for the marriage certificate of Sina and James Richardson and, sure enough, it was my Sina Matthews/Hawes/Richardson.
Thank you so much for all your help.
I am very grateful.
Glynis.

Hello
May have some info for you. My Nan is aged 94 and her mum was Gladys Hawes. Glady's parents were Joseph John Hawes and Charlotte Hawes. Glady's mum died when she was about 1 year old (so in around 1899) and Joseph re-married. Nan said that she remembers visiting her step grandparent/s and she thinks there name was Matthews. Gladys did not like her step mother and said she was cruel. Sounds like this could be a match for who you are looking for?
Vicky

I had not dreamed of looking so late on for a marriage for Sina. Thinking about it now, it is clear that she did not divorce Joseph and just lived with James Richardson as his wife. It seems strange to be getting married at 66, but I now realise that she must still have been married to Joseph. Once Joseph died in 1936 she would have been free to marry James.
Thanks again for your help everyone.

Wow,
I knew you people would be able to help.
I am pretty convinced you have found her. Looks like she was living as James' wife for many years before actually marrying him. I will send for the certificate just to make sure.
Thanks so much everyone.
Victoria, I'm glad you agree with me that I have the right Joseph in the 1911 census.
I hope I can now rest easy that I have them both sewn up.

Hmmm....who else in my tree do I need help with!!!

Ok these are the twins born in 1911

Births Mar 1911
Richardson James P Camberwell 1d 839
Richardson William G Camberwell 1d 839

I shall try and find them moving forwards.

This *could* be the marriage of 1 of them

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005

Name: Wiliam G Richardson
Spouse Surname: Edith E Walls
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1923
Registration district: Camberwell
Registration county (inferred): Surrey
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 1078




Tracey x

Divorce just didn't happen in those days, it was an extremely difficult process.

The more likely outcome is as i have suggested already they both just lived with new partner's.

Now the 1911 is a little weird, Joseph would not have been the one to fill it in, his landord/lady would have been, and as he's boarding in their house and no sign of a wife or child THEY would have enetered him as single....not thinking to ask otherwise. If he didn't mention it freely they, back then, were not the kind of society to ask!

I do like the Sima found in 1911, and had looked at that one myself.

The name Sina is actually very popular !!

If i were the poster i would order the marriage cert for Sina and James and see what it says and maybe order a cert for one of the children on the 1911.



Tracey x

maybe this is Joseph's death

Joseph J Hawes
Death Registration Month/Year: 1936
Age at death (estimated): 68
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 909

this has to be him, everything else fits, if he and Sina had separated/divorced then he may well have said he was single rather than admit to a divorce.

HAWES, Joseph J Boarder Single M 40 1871 Domestic Gardener Bucks Oakley VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
3325 Reference:
RG14PN3325 RG78PN126 RD39 SD3 ED3 SN66

Registration District:
Croydon Sub District:
West Croydon Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
Croydon

Address:
14 Handscroft Road W Croydon County:
Surrey

Joseph Hawes
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Fredrick FARMER
Mother's Name: Rebecca
Gender: Male
Where born: Oakley, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Oakley
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England

Street Address: Manor Farm
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Thame
Sub-registration district: Brill
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Fredrick Hawes 48
Rebecca Hawes 52
Joseph Hawes 13
Emily Hawes 11

Births Sep 1867 (>99%)
Hawes Joseph John Thame 3a 569

Joseph John Hawes widower gardener
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Spouse Name: Sina Elizabeth Matthews
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Jan 1902
Parish: St Mary, Bromley St Leonard
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Frederick Hawes deceased farmer
Spouse Father Name: William Henry Matthews labourer

address 54 Fern Street
witnesses William H Matthews and Lizzie Matthews

How about this?

RICHARDSON, James Head Married
5 years M 29 1882 Carman Camberwell Surrey VIEW
RICHARDSON, Sima Wife Married F 30 1881 Greenwich Kent VIEW
RICHARDSON, Ethel Daughter F 4 1907 Catford Kent VIEW
RICHARDSON, James Son M 0 (3 MONTHS) 1911 Camberwell Surrey VIEW
RICHARDSON, William Son M 0 (3 MONTHS) 1911 Camberwell Surrey VIEW

Hmmmm,

Looks like she ended her days as Richardson...

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Sina Richardson
Name: Sina Richardson
Death Registration Month/Year: 1961
Age at death (estimated): 81
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 1280



Tracey x

???

Name: Sina Richardson
Death Registration Month/Year: 1961 DEC Q
Age at death (estimated): 81
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 1280

For background
Could not find her birth until realised single T:
Births Sep 1880
MATHEWS Sinia Elizabeth Greenwich 1d 940

Hmmmm

Could this be her in later life?

Marriages Jun 1946
HAWES Sina E Richardson Battersea 1d 654
Richardson James T Richardson Battersea 1d 654
Richardson James T Hawes Battersea 1d 654
Richardson Sina E Richardson Battersea 1d 654

This could indicate she was living under the name Richardson for quite a while... as she was so well known as this surname she's had to use both her 'known' name and her actual previous surname when marrying.

How many Sina E's could there be?


Tracey x

Births Sep 1880
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MATHEWS Sinia Elizabeth Greenwich 1d 940

I am trying to find Sina Elizabeth Hawes (nee Matthews) b.1880 Deptford, in the 1911 census. I have found her birth record ( as Sinia ), as Susan in 1881 census, as a son age 10 in 1891 census, and as a servant age 20 in 1901. She married Joseph John Hawes in 1902 in Poplar and had a son Reginald Claude in 1904.
In 1911 I can find her son as Master Reggie living with Sina's parents but no sign there of Sina or Joseph. I think I have found Joseph b. Oakley Bucks, living as a boarder age 40 in 1911 but it has him down as single. Could this mean he has divorced Sina? I can't find a death record for Sina.
Records for her have been notoriously difficult to find so far, as have records for Joseph as his DOB keeps changing.
This is driving me mad. I have tried all kinds of variations and spellings but to no avail in 1911. I would appreciate a fresh approach from someone out there or I am open to ideas of how I might continue.