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For those that helped me with this earleir....Beattie (Beatrice) Osbourne turned out to be a good family friend, and neighbours. Their back wall backed onto relatives (Town family) house. Her daughters Beatrice and Ivy were bridesmaids at my grandparents wedding.
I still haven't got any further in finding Uncle Short, but nice to add the Osbournes to the found pile!

Then mum was right. Aunt Beatie was who they visited and she thought it was Kent. Elsie was staying with Beatie in Kent, and Aunt Harriett went over to visit. Some 15-20 years later mum also goes on a visit to Kent to see Aunt Beatie....she must be related somehow.
Clues might lay in Eliza's Aunts.
Mum said her name was Beatie Osborne (or similar). And I may even have a picture of her!
If this Beatie is Osborne, then she can't have married one of Eliza's brothers. And unless we can find a sister that married an Osborne, we must look at Eliza's aunts to see if any of them married an Osborne and had a daughter Beatie or similar. But then that would mean she was a spinster up until the late 40's/early 50's.
Off to search again.......

How lovely,

Looks like you were right about them being in Kent if they went on a visit to Upnor. They wouldn't have travelled far from home in those days.

I am really curious now about the Chinamen !!!

Dea x

Yes I feared that Dea, I looked up the county, but had no idea just where in England it was. Then again, here in Australia, driving the same distance from one end of England to the other in a day isn't unusual LOL.

Dea, I love the letter, it is such a reflection on the time. And quite unusual in what Eliza writes. Remember my nan was 13 at the time....here is some more....

...I was very pleased with your letter, and we are all glad to hear you are enjoying yourself, but you don't know how I miss you. Well I hope you had a nice time gathering apples, how many did you eat. I hope you did not have the tummy ache. Aunt Harriett tells me you all enjoyed yourselves at Upnor, and she said it was a good thing she got over when she did. Well dear, you will have a little surprise Monday, you will have a few Chinamen come to see you, so look out before breakfast, now dont forget and oversleep yourself........


I will never know the story about the Chinamen!!!

The district Morpeth spans the boundaries of the counties of Co. Durham and Northumberland

You couldn't get much further away from Hackney without leaving the Country!

Dea x

What a lovely letter to have Wendy.

It does sound to me though from that little bit that Uncle Short is closer, geographically to the letter writer that to Aunty Beattie. I do not think he is married to Beattie.

At least we know now that 'my' Short is not the one as the letter was dated 1925 and he had died in 1920.

You are right to follow through your 'instincts' though as I have made many connections doing just that, even though they took a great deal of time and effort. They can often prove to be correct.

Good luck with it - I will see if I can find anything else.

Keep us posted.

Dea x

Could someone please find the details to this marriage fo rme...a long shot, but you never know...

Marriages Sep 1928 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Short John W Smith Morpeth 10b 878
Smith Eliza Short Morpeth 10b 878


I doubt Eliza married again, I'm sure mum would have known, and . I'm not sure where Morpeth is in relation to Hackney.

But..if we don't eliminate, we aren't left with the truth!

OOOO just had a thought. Nan's father had died in 1913, and one could interpret the passage in the letter as a mother convincing her child that the new man in her life was a good man! Maybe Uncle Short was no relation at all, and Eliza's man friend????
However, this was 1925. Eliza died in 1929. My mother was born in 1939, and still the name Uncle Short was used, so he must have been more important than just a man friend.
I know this sounds like a wild goose chase, but through a hunch and a lot of eliminations, I discovered my Great Grandmother, and ultimately, 2 new branches to my tree, all closely related. I have no doubts that there is a link somewhere, just maybe not from the direction I started from..

The letter was written August 1925.
Written from the Eliza and Elsie's home
31 Churchill Rd., Homerton.

No receiving address.

I will quote part of it...

...you will be surprised to hear I am going to have a holiday when you come home, so you will have to be Mum. Uncle Short has offered to pay, don't you think he is good. Uncle Short is pleased you like to be with Aunt Beatie. now will you kindly remember me to all. I must say goodnight, and God bless you.
Your loving Mum xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Just got off the phone to Mum, and asked her again what she can remember. Mum was only 12 when she left England, and has vague memories of hearing Uncle Short's name, but can't remember him. However, she does recall Beatie, and says it might possibly be Beatie Osborne, possibly from Kent. Mum remembers visiting her. This is where my nan was at the time of the letter. There may not be a connection between her and Short, but it is quite clear in the letter that Uncle Short passed on news from Beatie to Eliza regarding my nan.

This might be Jessie in 1911:
SHORT, Jessie School-Girl F 11 1900 School London
RG number: RG14 Piece: 14715 Reference: RG14PN14715 RG78PN893 RD316 SD4 ED13 SN342
Registration District: Bath Sub District: Walcot Enumeration District: 13 Parish: Bath Address: 16 17 and 18 Walcot Parade Bath County: Somersetshire
(All girls listed on the page)

Well, it is an unusual first name but usually when you call people Uncle 'something', or Aunty 'something', I have never heard the surname used, only the first name.

Anyway, if it helps to connect - the one I found was a Butler and had a daughter Jane Annie:


Short Clarkson
Year of Registration: 1847
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Spilsby
County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 14
Page: 541 (click
...............

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Short Clarkson
Name: Short Clarkson
Death Registration Month/Year: 1920
Age at death (estimated): 73
Registration district: Kingston
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 427

.................
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Jane Annie Clarkson
Name: Jane Annie Clarkson
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 3 Oct 1880
Father's Name: Short Clarkson
Mother's Name: Annie Clarkson
Parish: St Luke, St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
County: Middlesex

Born 2nd or 3rd September, 1880
Address 6 Molyneux St.
Father was a Butler.
..........

When was the letter written and if she was staying with Aunt Beattie at the time, was there an address?

Dea x

Oh, just seen the spouse father name, her father was Henry Smith, not William, but will check on the name.:)

On the 1911 census there are 2 more children listed who have then been crossed out as they are at school in Bristol.
It does not give total years of marriage. The 18 (years) comes from a red 8 superimposed over possibly 11 and is in the total number of children column.
It then reads 8 children born, 4 living, 4 died.
It does not say where any of the children were born.
The missing children look like:
John, possibly aged 13, and Jessie, 11? All 4 children have their ages recorded in the male column, so, if it is Jessie, it might be male or female.

TY Astra, yes 1893, my bad.
I am wondering how we can confirm that Alice is 'my' Alice. I did an IGI search, but no luck. I am presuming Beatie was a pet name.
How interesting Dea. I didn't think of Short being a first name.

This looks like the marriage of Alice --and John Short ??


Name: John Short (Gas Fitter)
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Spouse Name: Alice Emma Smith
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Dec 1893
Parish: St Mary
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: William John Short (publican)
Spouse Father Name: William Henry Smith (Decorator)

Wittnesses William Henry Smith --and what looks like Maurice Southby !! ?? ( sorry not very clear

Addresses Groom 95 Marlbro' Rd
Bride 71 Cornwallis Road

It is probably not connected as he does not appear to have married a Beatrice (unless this was a middle name)?
but surprisingly, I did find someone called Short in Middlesex area around that time so I will post it just in case!

Marriages Dec 1877

***CLARKSON Short Kensington 1a 322
Haslett Emma Kensington 1a 322
***Paine Annie Kensington 1a 322
Turton Robert Straker Kensington 1a 322

Dea x

This looks like them in 1911 assuming you mean they married in 1893 and not 1883 as she would have only been 10! They have had 4 children all of which are still living. But I can't think that Alice would have been referred to as Beattie.

SHORT, John Married
18 years M 38 1873 Labourer Genl Bermondsey VIEW
SHORT, Alice Married F 37 1874 Coffee Packing Bermondsey VIEW
SHORT, Catherine F 0 (4 MONTHS) 1911 VIEW
SHORT, Emma F 0 (4 MONTHS) 1911 VIEW

Registration District:
St Olave (Bermondsey) Sub District:
Bermondsey Enumeration District:
14 Parish:
Bermondsey

Address:
83 Spa Road Bermondsey S E County:
London

Footnote for those that helped on this topic.
After reading a letter written by my Great Grandmother (Eliza Fish nee Smith) to my Nan, and discovering more of my ancestors, I was able to work out who she was writing about. With references to my Grandmother's relations such as Uncle and Aunt, she mentions an Uncle Short, and an Aunt Beatie, most likely married. My Nan was staying with Aunt Beatie at the time. After going through all of Nan's Uncles and Aunts that I know about, I have concentrated on Alice Smith 1873 and Elizabeth Fish 1867 as possible "Beatie's". I can't find a Beatrice or similar. I have found a very likely marriage between Elizabeth Smith and Joseph Watson, so that leaves Alice, and there is a marriage at Islington 1883 with an Alice Smith and a John Short registered...but I can find no 1901 census record or anything else.
It is quite possible that there were more siblings than I already have. Henry and Eliza had 14 children, 7 who had died before 1911.
My Great Grandmother was Eliza Smith 1880. Daughter of Henry Smith 1840, and Eliza Broomhead 1841. She married Albert Fish in 1910. He was the son of William Fish 1846, and Mary Godfrey 1842.
All of the Aunts and Uncles were born in the Bethnal Green - Homerton area, though Islington and the surrounding areas do appear.
I would appreciate it if someone could help me find this elusive Uncle Short, and solve yet another family mystery.