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Births Jun 1853
Cockling Richard Poplar 1c 560 (Barnes ?)

Births Sep 1860
COCKLIN George Poplar 1c 575 (Barnes ?)

2 offerings for Ellen.

Births Mar 1864
COCKLIN Ellen Poplar 1c 671
COCKLYN Ellen Poplar 1c 671
Births Sep 1864
COCKLIN Ellen Poplar 1c 630
(Thomas ?)

As posted earlier.

But I couldnt find Henry..

Hi FBG and Mary,
I can't believe that you have come up with all this info so quickly. I think that you are both on the right track as everything seems to fit. Now all I need to do try to find one of their births. Lets hope that it won't be too hard under the name of Cocklin as it would be for Barnes.
With your help it seems at last this brick wall is tumbling down...thanks so much.
If you manage to come across and info would be appreciate it.
Best wishes
Loraine.

Hi FBG and Mary,
I can't believe that you have come up with all this info so quickly. I think that you are both on the right track as everything seems to fit. Now all I need to do try to find one of their births. Lets hope that it won't be too hard under the name of Cocklin as it would be for Barnes.
With your help it seems at last this brick wall is tumbling down...thanks so much.
If you manage to come across and info would be appreciate it.
Best wishes
Loraine.

Name: George Barnes
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Spouse Name: Phobe Heighton
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 30 Jul 1881
Parish: St Michael and All Angels, Bromley
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Harry Barnes
Spouse Father Name: Edwin Heighton

What I believe to be the births for Ellens 4 children.

Births Jun 1853
Cockling Richard Poplar 1c 560

Births Sep 1860
COCKLIN George Poplar 1c 575 (Barnes)

2 offerings for Ellen.

Births Mar 1864
COCKLIN Ellen Poplar 1c 671
COCKLYN Ellen Poplar 1c 671
Births Sep 1864
COCKLIN Ellen Poplar 1c 630
(Thomas)

So where is Henry 1859 ish then ?

There is this,but I find him on 1861 with parents William and Sarah ann.

Births Dec 1857
Barnes Henry Poplar 1c 58[35]

Sorry Maryb.
What is it you are thinking I am thinking about the Ellens.

I have got myself a little in a tangle here and need it unravelled I think.

Did Ellen 1864 (supposedly Thomas) have a daughter Ellen then?

I havent found any of Ellen 1835 ish children after 1881 to be honest !

But I DO know that I think they were all Cocklin/Coughlins at birth.
Not Barnes or Thomas and that Ellen 1835 ish, give or take 5 years, just gave them their fathers names in life and made herself a widow to suit.

What do you think Maryb?

Dear Oh me,,I must need a holiday...

Edit.
I think I have just fallen in on what you are saying.

No I was looking for any likely marriages for Ellen 1835 still.

Didnt think about Ellen 1864 as she could be marrying under Thomas as George married as Barnes.

There is another marriage for ellen Coughlan A/M/J 1884 in poplar 1c 1166 with a extra guy.
These are the guys names John Hubbert
James Murphy
George Pickton.
I have checked 1891 for ellen and one of the above but yet agin no luck.

Maryb
Are we thinking that this Ellen is daughter of ellen who was born @ 1864.

Could well be Mary b..None of them seem to leave the area.

1891
This is the only Ellen right age(ish) and place of birth I can find for mother Ellen,with Cocklins?true she has another surname,but..
And also what do you know?An Ellen Hollen is not to be found on 1881/1871

COCKLIN, Margaret Head Widow F 59 1832 Laundress
Bromley
Middlesex
COCKLIN, Daniel Son Single M 23 1868 Dock Labourer
Bromley
Middlesex
HOLLEN, Ellen Boarder Widow F 61 1830 Laundress
Bromley
Middlesex
RG number:
RG12 Piece:
319 Folio:
81 Page:
18

Registration District:
Poplar Sub District:
Bromley Enumeration District:
4 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Marys

Civil Parish:
Bromley Municipal Borough:
Tower Hamlets Address:
1, Donald Street, Bromley, Hamlet, Tower Hamlets County:
London


And I know that Donald Street has figured in this search before ,but I cant remember where as I dont think I included it here,just noted it in my mind.

Also next door but one at 16,Thomas st there is Catherine Coghlan 75 ireland and daughter mary 1831 ireland,is this ellens mum.

Maryb

Search for Barnes/Thomas/Cocklin in 1891 now...

I cant find Thomas or Barnes in 1871

1891
Louisa Walsh/Heighton is on Thomas street at No 1!

WALSH, John Head Married M 35 1856 House Decorator
Rotherhithe
Surrey
WALSH, Louisa Wife Married F 30 1861 Ivory Turner
Brixton
Surrey
WALSH, Edward Son Single M 11 1880
Bromley
Middlesex



A grooms name is missing from this one...
And they are not on Ancestry,,blast..

Marriages Jun 1884
CAROLL Mary Poplar 1c 1168
CARROLL Mary Poplar 1c 1168
COUGHLIN Ellen Poplar 1c 1168
Creaton Sarah Ann Poplar 1c 1168
Sullivan Cornelius Poplar 1c 1168
Walker William Richard Poplar 1c 1168

1871...at last I find the Cocklins,and what do we have ??

Ellen born at the same time as Ellen Thomas.
Coincidence maybe,but with Henry and George as well??
AND in Thomas street,No 1 on image.

All born Bromley and Ellen is a "widow"and we know she started life as Cocklin/Coghlin so how does she become a "widow"without a hubby to die then??

COGHLAN, Ellen Head F 38 1833 Middlesex
COGHLAN, Richard Son M 18 1853 Middlesex
COGHLAN, George Son M 11 1860 Middlesex
COGHLAN, Ellen Daughter F 7 1864 Middlesex
RG number:
RG10 Piece:
570 Folio:
64 Page:
25

Registration District:
Poplar Sub District:
Bow Enumeration District:
9 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Bromley St Leonard Municipal Borough:
Address:
Thomas St, Bromley St Leonard County:
London, Middlesex

Henry not with them,but the same family for sure...

I'am trying every which way with this.
Some of George and Phoebe's children are with Henry Barnes in 1901.it says he is a widow born 1860.
He is at 10,bromley Place.
Also with Henry is Louisa Walsh 1860 she is Louisa Heighton,Phoebe's sister
There is someone on here with George and Phoebe's children and I'm going through there family to find the connection between the Barnes family,not having much luck at all.

Children Phoebe Barnes 1881
Louise 1884
Emma 1886
Henry 1887 died
Elizabeth ellen 1888 born Poplar married James Foley 1917.
But was with him in 1911 and says they were married 2 years.

Ellen 1893 died
Richard 1897
John James 1899.
Lorraine says the last 3 were Henry's so did George die between 1888-1893?

Maryb

Thank you Maryb for coming in to lend a hand.

Got eye weary last night,but this one is on the cards for further searching today.

I did search for a marriage quickly last night but same as you,drew a blank.

Maybe she never "married"Mr Thomas either.

I would like to see the birth cert of Ellen Thomas,wonder if she is on baptisms on Ancestry?

Will be back later on this.

You could have something there FBG
1851 John Cocklin 1801 Cork Ireland Labourere in market Garden
Catherine 1801 Cork
Mary 1828 Bromley
Ellen 1833 bromley worker in garden
Catherine
2,Fred/Frederick St
In same enumeration district is Thomas Street,the Thomas and Barnes family there in 1881
1861 they are at 4,Little Charles St in same distict again is Thomas Street.

I haven't seen a marriege for Ellen Cocklin though,to either Thomas or Barnes.

Maryb

Speculation time...

Lets see where this takes us as Henry and George are DEF not Catherines,and Ellen is right age and Henry and George are too and all born in the right place.
And disappear on 1871.....
Further investigation needed.

1861
COCKLIN, Catherine Head Widow F 60 1801 Grocer Woman
Ireland
COCKLIN, Ellen Daughter Unmarried F 26 1835 House Holder
Bromley
Middlesex
COCKLIN, Catherine Daughter Unmarried F 24 1837 Touch Holer
Bromley
Middlesex
COCKLIN, Richard Son M 8 1853
Bromley
Middlesex
COCKLIN, Henry Son M 2 1859
Bromley
Middlesex
COCKLIN, George Son M 1 1860
Bromley
Middlesex
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
302 Folio:
110 Page:
35

Registration District:
Poplar Sub District:
1 Bow Enumeration District:
24 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Bromley East Municipal Borough:
Address:
4, Little Charles Street, Bromley East County:
London, Middlesex

*******************************
And a Henry /Harry Barnes near by who is a lighterman..

BARNES, Henry Head Married M 24 1837 Lighterman
Lambeth
Surrey
BARNES, Celia Wife Married F 24 1837
...
Surrey
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
308 Folio:
76 Page:
46

Registration District:
Poplar Sub District:
2 Poplar Enumeration District:
21 Ecclesiastical Parish:
All Saints

Civil Parish:
Poplar Municipal Borough:
Address:
22, Ashton Street, Poplar County:
London, Middlesex

For ref..

1881

THOMAS, Ellen Head Widow F 45 1836
Bromley
Middlesex
BARNES, Henry Son Single M 22 1859 Dock Laborer
Bromley
Middlesex
BARNES, George Son Single M 20 1861 Carman
Bromley
Middlesex
THOMAS, Ellen Daughter Single F 17 1864 Factory Hand
Bromley
Middlesex
RG number:
RG11 Piece:
494 Folio:
101 Page:
27

Registration District:
Poplar Sub District:
Bromley Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Bromley Municipal Borough:
Address:
15, Thomas St, Bromley County:
Middlesex

Hi all,
Wonder if any one can help me please.
I have been looking for this man for years with no luck! the earliest info I have is 1881 census where he was living with his mother Ellen Thomas, brother Henry and half sister Ellen Thomas, in Poplar, London. He married in 1881 to Phoebe Amelia Heighton, he stated his father was named Henry and that he was a Lighterman. When Phoebe died in 1900 the certificate stated she was a widow, which may explain why Phoebe had three children with a Henry Barnes from 1893 presuming it was Georges's brother.
If anyone can help would reeally appreciate it as this man is driving me nuts!
Best wishes
Loraine