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Hi
According to the Edwards family tradition my grandfather Sidney Edwards born in 1878 in Clerkenwell, London was put into an orpanage by his mother when his father died while Sidney was very young and she could not we presume feed an extra child (if there were any other siblings?) The mother is unknown but on Sidney's marriage Bans of 16 Apr 1899 (to Charlotte Louisa Toynbee) in Hackney his father is shown as William James Edwards "Dead"! I am waiting for a copy of his possible birth cert, in order to find out the name of his mother too.
Meanwhile however, I would like to know if anyone knows of any records for orphanages, presumably in the Clerkenwell are?

Is it also possible to search say the 1881(age 3) and 1891 (age 13) specifically for Orphanages in that possible area to check if he is registered there? He must have staid in the orphanage until he was old enough to start work, as a Tailor, as we understand that he was taught tailoring as a trade in that institution.

Another line of possible enquiry would be if there was any record of tailoring apprenticeships, or tailoring guilds in London?

Is it also possible that there would have been any trade union for the tailoring trade workers?

Any advice or guidance on any of these subjects would be of interest

If it helps I did find a 'Sydney' (spelt with a 'y') age 3 in the 1881 Census who was born in Clerkenwell, living with Caroloine Edwards 'Bonnet Maker' who also had a daughter Caroline 20 & three other children. I thought She was likely as my Sidney's mother as she also turns up in the 1891 without 'Sydney', who might be in the orphanage by then (or dead if he's not my one)

In any event, regardless of who his mother was, it is the orphanage records I would like to find any way.

At least his Tailoring trade was useful at he practiced that during the rest of his working life & supported a wife & 5 children (it even helped him as a prisoner of war during WW1 when he was found to be useful mendind the uniforms of the very smart German officers)

Thanks very much for any information or leads anyone can give me.

George

Hi this looks like him in 1901
1901 census

Address 8 Stanley Rd
Civil Parish Leyton
Rural District
Town or Village or Hamlet Leyton
Ecclesiastical Parish All Saints
Parliamentary Borough or Division Walthamstow
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Leyton
Administrative County Essex
Householder 1
Name Louisa Edwards
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 20
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Stratford Es
Language
Infirmity
Householder 2
Name Sidney Edwards
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 23
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Tailors Cutter
Employment Status
Where Born Clerkenwell London
Language
Infirmity
Householder 3
Name Sidney R Edwards
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 2
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Walthamstow Essex
Language
Infirmity
Householder 4
Name Grace Nunn
Relation to Head of Family Boarder
Condition as to Marriage Widow
Age Last Birthday 49
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation ... Own Account
Employment Status
Where Born Kensington London
Language
Infirmity


will check other census for you

Thanks Polly,
Yes I do have this 1901 Census already thanks and it is my g/f ok, living with my g/m & son Sid (my mother was born in 1903)

However, I am still trying to find his early life, from say age 3+, for any record as an orphan in an Orphanage, where he learnt tailoring. His life in the orphanage is rather obscure in our family story that has come down to us, so I'm trying to find out about that missing period. As can be seen from the later 1901 Census which you matched he was by then supporting his family by his tailoring skills which he learnt as a young child/boy in the orphanage.

I have a SYDNEY in the 1881 Census, age 3,living at home, but we think he went into the orphanage soon after that i.e by the time of the next 1891 census, as he's not with the same family then, in which case he should be on an institutional list with many other orphans.

Look forward to any record from an orphanage.

Thanks for your interest and help.
George

Have you considered this one? Although transcribed as baker, he has no occupation on original:

1891 England Census

Name: Sydney Edwards
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Baker
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England

Civil parish: Bisley
Ecclesiastical parish: Bisley
Town: Bisley
County/Island: Surrey


Registration district: Chertsey
Sub-registration district: Chobham
ED, institution, or vessel: Shaftesbury Farm School

Hi Brum'
Interesting, but was 'Baker' his occupation, as you state further down 'Relation: Baker'?

Where can I find this or can you forward copy please?

No Baker known as a 'relation' yet. If Baker by trade, that conflicts with what he told my mother & uncles i.e he was trained as a Tailor while at the orphanage and that is what he did till he retired.

Will post result of his birth cert, if it's right one, when it arrives. Mother shown might help idenitify and will confirm deceased father as shown on marriage banns.

Have now had idea to try 'Orphanages in Clerkenwell London 1870s' as a google search. Will also see if any Family History Society in Clerkenwell who can tell me about any history of an orphanage there. Will post any result later.

Thanks Brum (& all others helping on the case)
George

George, I don't think you noticed what I said about the original. There is no occupation for George - the transcriber has just copied that of someone else a few rows back! The baker in question is 21 and I would assume a member of staff. Otherwise the information is as you see it.
I found this on Ancestry.
Jan

I've had a quick look, and the farm school was run by a charity for poor and destitute children, so might well be the place you are after.

Have a look at this site and see what you think:

http://www.shaftesbury.org.uk/about_us/About+us

An extract - note the trades taught included tailoring:

The charity was founded in 1843 by William Williams, a solicitor’s clerk.

The founder aimed to use education to break the cycle of deprivation and poverty in which the street children of London were trapped. The first school, for 150 children of both genders, met in a hayloft over a cowshed in Holborn with classes staffed by 23 volunteer teachers. As part of the Ragged Schools movement, Williams helped to found the Ragged Union the following year.

The work attracted the patronage and active support of the 7th Earl of Shaftesbury who, in 1866, used his influence to secure the use of a redundant naval warship, the Chichester. This was followed in 1974 by the Arethusa. These housed up to 400 boys on the Thames and were the start of over a hundred years of training boys for future life in the Royal or Merchant Navy. Between them, the refuges in the Soho/Covent Garden area and the two ships, housed boys and girls teaching the Fordham House boys learn shoe repairformer the trades of carpentry, cobbling and tailoring in addition to seamanship skills; teaching the girls the skills necessary to fit them for domestic service.

In 1867 the farm school at Bisley opened, followed by the Shaftesbury boys school there in 1873.

Jan

These show on London Bapt.
1878 Parish St John Clerkenwell.

4 Children were Bapt on same day. 20th Jan 1878.

Sidney -
William James bn Aug 1867.?
Pricilla bn Sept 13 1870,
Louise bn Aug 16 1874.
Parents-Charles William Roland/Robert &Caroline Edwards.
a Charles a Gas fitter of 18 Aylesbury St Clerkenwell.

Chilren were taught a trade when they were placed in Instuitions/Industrial schools to give them a better chance of employment when they left,
and many were often rebaptised there again even if they had been done.

Thanks Jan
I'll look the school up today on that website.
Meanwhile how do I find that 1891 census result about that entry QUICKLY on Ancestry? I just did another 1891 census search again against Sid & got 20,000+ entries! Is there a more direct route to find it there? Please advise.
Thanks v m
George head spinning

Thanks Kay
Yes I did see that St John bapt' b4, but at time dismissed it as wrong father. My Sids dad was William James Edwards according to Sids marriage banns. However I did like you also see there is a 'William James' b1867 entry on that bapt rec too - strange? As my Sid born 1878 it would make that WJ only 11, so I dismissed him as pos dad for Sid (but might be brother?) Still Chas 'Gas Fit' wrong dad anyway (unless was grandad maybe?) Not sure about this - what do you think?
Thanks for input.
George

You need to look for the Edwards family in 1871 to see who the father is

There is this death
James William Edwards 1853 died 1880 june qt Holborn the same reg district where the family are living in 1881

Sorry Quinsgran, but I know who the father of Sidney was i.e William James Edwards (I am still waiting for SE b/cert to come in post, so if I found right Sid, that should confirm his dad too & his mum also)
However, yes I do see what you are now thinking: is WJE same as the JWE who died 1880? Maybe that makes sense as we know that dad of Sid died few years after Sid born in 1878, so death JWE 1880 fits that. Also easy for little Sid to get name of his dad muddled, as he may have had no records except what he was told.
Yes will search 1871 again with that in mind. Thanks for this idea.

However just to clarify my quest here: I'm still trying to break into the 'ORPHANAGE' that Sid went too. I just thought there would be actual records of that still somewhere online? Or maybe find a place that they can be inspected at? In that respect am checking out the Farm School website & the Sidney (non-baker lad) ref'd in census for that place, as mentioned above. If there are still book records somewhere, there might be an actual register of children in the institution also showing details of entrants & parents etc. Maybe too much to expect?

While searching on google did find a very useful website all about 'orphanages' on: www.missing-ancestors.com which might be of interest to others with orphan ancestors in family, as it's got lots of useful links & gen info. Will be going into that more too.

Thanks very much for all this input, Quinsgran & all you others.
Regards from
'George got to work it all out'.

Oh yes, PS: TO Genes R/U - 'Idea', can we please have a 'copy' button for each response/reply i.e where it's got edit/delete/add? Don't want to print off whole/all page(s) or do cut&paste each time!
Ta v m
More regards
Lazy George

Hi George.

To go to an entry quickly, once you are certain of the data, you can narrow it down by ticking some "exact" boxes.
Do this for his name, birth year and county of residence and you should find him fairly easily.
Are you aware you can save records to your shoebox?

Jan

Oh yes I get it! Thanks Jan, will try that 'exact' thingy next time.

OK next question please: how to print off just a single reply on here, without printing off all pages on that thread to get it?

George

Hi George.
You misunderstood what I was saying. I suggested looking at the 1871 census to see if Carolines husband was William. In this way you can see if this is possibly your family.

As for printing off single replies I dont think you can. As you say it prints off all of it

You can print anything by doing copy and paste onto a document such as word or notepad.
Jan

Hi Jan
Following up on your Bisley Farm School, I have now heard back from the Archivist at the Shaftesbury.org explaining that The only record they have for a Sidney Edwards relate to some one who went to Canada in 1919, which cannot be my Sidney. Also all the records relating to Bisley were destroyed in the 1950's & 1960's either by accident or 'to make space'. Perhaps he was in those, but will now never know!
George the disappointed.

Hi all
Some one else has now informed me as follows:
"Most of the children in Clerkenwell at the time were sent to Barnardos Homes. Barnardos is still in existence and if with them, you can get his records. They do not charge to search their records to see if he was there, but if you want his records and photo taken on admission and departure, it will cost you 100 pounds stirling. I know because my grandfather was born in Clerkenwell, and went to Barnardos in 1889. .... Is it possible that anyone in the family was ever in the Holborn Workhouse? They still have records, but, as far as I know, you have to go there to check them because I don't think they are online yet. I found some relatives there, which surprised me."

Thought this might be useful information for anyone else looking at this, who is also searching for orphans in that area.

Will get back when I get any more info' etc.

If anyone has anything to add or suggest I shall be very pleased to see it.

Thanks everyone.
George