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I am trying to find my Great Great Grandfather' Thomas Winter's parents he was born in c. 1858 not sure where. He married Hannah Todd b. 1862 Wilmington, Kent 1881in Wandsworth. They had a son Thomas b. 1882 in Clapham, but his parents seem to disappear and he re-appears living with his Grandparents William and Ann Todd in the 1901 census. What happened to his parents? William married Flora Margaret Mary Freyer 22.04.1905 in Southwark. Then in the 1911 census he has disappeared! Flora is listed as head of household in Walthamstow living with her 5 year old daughter Violet. Any help really appreciated. Thanks.

So If this is him Hannah is married to a Jarman and Thomas must be Hannah's son by her previous marriage to Thomas Winter

Henry Jarman
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Clipstone, Northamptonshire, England
Civil parish: Clapham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Johns
Town: Clapham
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Clapham
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Jarman 35
Hannah Jarman 28
>>>>Thomas Winter 8>>>>>Son born Clapham
Rose Jarman 5
Lousia Jarman 2
Henry W Jarman 4 months

As you say Thomas is with his Todd Grand Parents in 1901 but Hannah (Annie) is still with Henry

Annie Jarman
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Henry
Gender: Female
Where born: Wilmington, Kent, England
Civil parish: Clapham
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Clapham
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 76
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Jarman 45
Annie Jarman 39
Louisa Jarman 12
William Jarman 10
Laura Jarman 7
Hilda Jarman 2

Thomas Winter>>>>>>Guard
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Spouse Name: Hannah Todd
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Nov 1881
Parish: St Paul, Clapham
County: Middlesex
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: William Winter>>>>>>deceased
Spouse Father Name: William Todd>>>>Railway ??

Witnessed by William Todd and Hannah Towney???? Maybe Lownes.

Address for the couple given as 12 Elwell Road

This is a possible. It all depends what the description Guard means but as Hannahs father worked for the railway then this may be him.

Thomas Winter
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Stubbington, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Battersea
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 3 Seldon Street
Occupation: Railway Goods Guard
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Battersea
ED, institution, or vessel: 76a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Ellen Loveless 40
Thomas Loveless 18
Frances May Loveless 11
Martha Loveless 9
Ellen Loveless 1
William Webb 16
Thomas Winter 20

This is amazing - thank you so much.

Karen

You're welcome

Flora Margaret Freyer>>>>>>bookkeeper
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Spouse Name: Thomas Winter>>>>>>confectioner
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Apr 1905
Parish: St Stephen, Walworth Common
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Harry Freyer
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Winter>>>>Inspector not noted as deceased!

Witnesses Minnie Freyer and Felix Raggy


Flora notes on the original image of the 1911 that she has been married for 6 years but is separated.


Minnie was Flora's sister

Minnie Freyer
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Female
Where born: Blackfriars, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Peter Walworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 12a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Freyer 33
Margaret Freyer 28
Florier Freyer 9
Minnie Freyer 7
Effie Freyer 6
Carl Freyer 2
Emily C Goodall 26
Alice M Goodall 7

Thomas is back with his mother in 1911

JARMAN, Hannah Head Widow F 49 1862 Kent Dartford VIEW
JARMAN, William Son Single M 19 1892 Engine Cleaner London Clapham VIEW
JARMAN, Laura Daughter Single F 17 1894 Packer London Clapham VIEW
JARMAN, Hilda Daughter F 12 1899 At School London Clapham VIEW
JARMAN, Lenard Son M 6 1905 At School London Clapham VIEW
WINTER, Thomas Son Married M 28 1883 Confectioner London Clapham VIEW
RILEY, Rosina Sister Married
22 years F 42 1869 Fore Laldry Kent Dartford VIEW
RILEY, John Brother In Law Married M 43 1868 Albany U S A VIEW

Registration District:
Wandsworth Sub District:
Clapham EnumerationDistrict:
12 Parish:
Wandsworth Borough

Address:
5 Elwell RD County:
London

I wonder if they got back together and this child is theirs. Or whether Flora was living with someone.

Morrow S Winter
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Freyer
District: St Pancras (1902-1977)
County: Greater London, London
Volume: 1b
Page: 167


Morrow was male. He married a Margaret MacGregor in 1936.

Looking at my records Flora re-married a Aaron Scott and Morrow was their daughter born in 1920.

This Morrow was definitely born in 1912 as that is his birth registration. I can't find another Morrow born 1920 who is a female.
Can't find the marriage of Aaron Scott to Flora. Do you know when it was?
Where did that information come from?

This is the only Morrow registered in 1920 and the Mother's Maiden name was King and she or he died in 1929

Morrow Bowling
Mother's Maiden Surname: King
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1920
Registration district: Wortley
Registration county: Yorkshire
Volume Number: 9c
Page Number: 632

Astra - I don't think they were married after all. I believe Morrow was my great aunt born 03.12.1920 Portsmouth married William Lamey not sure of the year, unfortunately she died a couple of years ago. Not got around to this branch of the tree yet!

This is of particular relevance to Karen.
Karen- we are related and I know you but I think I have lost your contact details.Not sure how to contact you directly but would like to get in touch again
I too have been trying to trace family origins.Unfortunately all my results are on "Ancestry.co.uk" rather than here
As you said my mother was Morrow who died in 2007.Her half sister was Margaret,who was the daughter of Thomas Winter.I have not traced the Winters back far since I am not directly related to that side of the family.
I have a fair amount of information about the Freyers who came to England in 1858,and can trace them back to Germany in 1829,and about the Scott side of the family who originated in Donegal.
Kind regards
Rob Lamey

This is an old thread Rob and Karen may not be checking it any more. GR do not notify of postings on threads.
If you click on her name on one of her postings you can send her a private message. If she still has the same E mail address it will reach her.

Astra
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