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For a few years now, I have been not paying much attention to my family tree. I have been at it for about 12 years now.

I am desperately trying to find my great great grandmother Emma Martin on the censuses before 1857 (when she married George James Byers).

All I know about Emma is that she was born around 1835 and her father was George Martin. She was an embroideress as per 1861 census. It says she was born London, Middlesex... not much help!

They were married in the Lambeth district. I just really want to crack this line - it's so frustrating. I have access to the censuses on here, but I'm not having much luck.

Please help!!

Chloe

do you have an occupation for George Martin there are several baptisms for the same names

George Martin was a pianoforte maker. His daughter, Emma, married a man of the same occupation. I guess it's how they met!

none of the baptisms for around that year up to 1845 have the right occupation for george

Grrrrr! Thanks for looking Shirley.

I wonder??
1851 census
Name: Emma Martin
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Apprentice milliner
Gender: Female
Where born: St. Georges, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George Hanover Square
Ecclesiastical parish: Hanover Square
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:91 New Bond Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: Hanover Square
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Maria Hughes 30 milliner mistress
Jane Bill 26
Sarah Hughes 37
Sarah Taylor 26
Jane Merris 21
Sarah M Cartill 22
Jane Smalley 24
Emma Martin 17 >>>>>>
Sophia Robinson 20
Sarah Wilson 17
Maryann Stokes 23
Ellen Richard 18
Ellen Waddington 19
Elizabeth Flimmins 23
Maryann Whitmy 23
Ann Crawford 17
Matilda Stwart 36
George Sprusling 20




Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1475; Folio: 47; Page: 10; GSU

Definitely a possibilty that I hadn't found. Thanks. What is a milliner?!? lol

The marriage that I'm seeing says Emma's father was a "picture dealer".

Maureen

RIght, have the certificates in my hand - I've obviously got myself confused with their daughter Ann Byers....

George Martin was a picture dealer, still alive in 1857. George Byers and Emma Martin married at St Mary, Lambeth 27th July 1857, both of full age. Her residence at the time was William Street. Witnesses were George Martin and Mary Anne Cope (Cope was George B's mother's maiden name).

Can parents act as witnesses? If not, then she has a brother called George. Oh it's like a needle in a stupid haystack!

Maureen - how are you able to see the certificate!?! I'm jealous!

A milliner was a person who made hats

Hi Chloe

London marriages between 1754 and 1921 are on Ancestry. I can send you the image of Emma Martin's marriage if you would like it.

Parents can and often did act as witnesses.

A Milliner makes hats.

EDIT - Just realised that you have the marriage certificate so you won't need the image.

Kath. x

Thanks,Kath- had a muffin in my hand/mouth for a while.

Maureen

Oooh Maureen - don't make me jealous. I'm trying to cut down!!!

Kath. x

LOL! These were hard earned muffins- a thank you gift from our neighbours. A lot of snow and shovels were involved. Why I take upon myself to eat all of them is another matter.

Maureen

I'm super jealous!! I wish I could afford it.

I am, however, trying to look for the marriage of George Byers's mother and stepfather.

I have them on the 1841 living in Orsett Street, Lambeth. They were neighbours. George isn't with them though - just to be annoying. Ann was still Ann Byers. Her husband, William Byers a hatter, was buried 5th July 1835 in Lambeth (I know George's father was deceased and a hatter from his marriage in 1857 - but I am worried about the dates).

In 1843, Louisa Jane Levitt was born to Joseph Levitt and Ann Levitt, formerly Cope (no mention of Byers - even though I've found the marriage of William Byers and Ann Cope). They're living in the same place. Louisa Jane is down as a Byers on the 1851 census though.

So were they ever married? Was George Byers born out of wedlock after his father died? I have a baptism record for George (but George Daniel) on 16th August 1835 which makes his year of birth on censuses as 1836. It also ties in well with the death of his father.

Argh! Please help me some more!! Pretty please!

Was your Joseph Levitt a carpenter as there maybe 3 baptisms for his children on Ancestry living Orsett Street
Joseph, Ellen Victoria and Louisa Jane. Irene

Yes, Irene. That's the family! But as to a marriage, they prove quite elusive!

Sorry I meant Eliza Victoria - I think she became a Potter and is witness to the marriage of one of her siblings - do you have the marriage certs from Ancestry.
What about Ann being married before and not marrying as a Cope. Irene

No, I don't have the certificates, but would love to see them!!

Ann was married before she married Joseph Levitt. On the 1841, she is Ann Byers, possibly a widow. I still can't seem to find a marriage record for either. I'm also confused as to why Louisa Jane is a Byers on the 1851 when her birth certificate says Levitt.

Why do ancestors do this? It's totally cruel!

Edit - read census wrong, they are down as Levitts.... doh!