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I am trying to h elp someone with their tree but have come unstuck.

I have Emily Annie Ratcliffe b. 1895 Bolton. I decided to find her parents on 1891 census and found them living Green Street, Bolton at a Licenced Boarding House Arthur R. Ratcliffe b. Walmesley, Alice J. 26, John R. 2, Margaret A l mth. I then tried to find a marriage for Arthur Ratcliffe to an Alice J Something - no luck. I then looked for them on 1901 census and found 28 Green Street, Bolton - Margaret Worsley/Horsley b. 1834, Alice J. Ratcliffe dau, John R. Ratcliffe Grandson, Alice Grand-daughter, Millicent Grand-daughter and Eliza grand-daughter age 1 mth. Ah! so Alice Jane was a Horsley or Worsley before marriage. I looked for her marriage again - still no luck. . I decided then to trace Emily Annie on the 1911 census on the free search. The household said: Richard Ratcliffe 49, Alice Jane 46, Agnes 20, John R 22, Janet F 17, Thomas 17, Emily Annie 16, Alice Victoria 13, Eliza Annie 10 and Milly Ann 5. This has completely bamboozled me. Where has Arthur disappeared to and who is Richard ? Richard is a comparable age to Alice J. and you would imagine them to be husband and wife... but ? I don't think so somehow. The others that I do not think belong in this family are Janet and Thomas aged 17. I did wonder if Agnes 20 was the wife of John R. Ratcliffe but cannot find a marriage so have discounted that. Can I reasonably say that this family comprises Alice Jane as wife, Arthur (wherever he is) the husband, and chilren John R. Emily Annie, Alice Victoria, Millicent (who died 1905) and Eliza ? Any thoughts please?

HI MM,

I haven't looked at the census returns which you have stated, so I wondered if the 1891 census Arthur R.... (Richard??), maybe he swapped his names around???


Dee x

Got the wrong family.....sorry

Regards Vera

1911

RATCLIFFE, Alice Jane Mother Married
25 years F 46 1865 House Keeper Grange Over Sands Lancs VIEW
RATCLIFFE, John Russell Head Single M 22 1889 Skilled Laboure Presser Glazer In Flyer Trade Limefull Nr Bury Lancs VIEW
RATCLIFFE, Emily Annie Sister Single F 16 1895 Card Tenter In Mill Cotton Bolton Lancs VIEW
RATCLIFFE, Alice Victoria Sister F 13 1898 Calico Weavers Tenter School Part Time Bolton Lancs VIEW
RATCLIFFE, Eliza Sister F 10 1901 School Bolton Lancs VIEW
RATCLIFFE, Milly An Sister F 5 1906 School Bolton Lancs VIEW
RAUSTHORN, Samuel Lodger Widower M 76 1835 Old Age Pensioner Bolton Lancs VIEW
TAYLOR, William Lodger Single M 40 1871 Skep Maker Wigan Lancs VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
23409 Reference:
RG14PN23409 RD461 SD7 ED25 SN151

Registration District:
Bolton Sub District:
Little Bolton EnumerationDistrict:
25 Parish:
Bolton

Address:
7 Tipping St Bolton Lancashire County:
Lancashire

richard

For ref;

1891 England Census
about Arthur R Ratcliffe
Name: Arthur R Ratcliffe
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Alice J
Gender: Male
Where born: Walinersley, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Bolton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Bolton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur R Ratcliffe 25
Alice J Ratcliffe 26
John R Ratcliffe 2
Margaret A Ratcliffe 1/12


Dee x

start again

1891 reference

Arthur R Ratcliffe
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Alice J
Gender: Male
Where born: Walinersley, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Bolton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Bolton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur R Ratcliffe 25
Alice J Ratcliffe 26
John R Ratcliffe 2
Margaret A Ratcliffe 1/12

Regards Vera

Hi Margaret here's the transcript for you

Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
RATCLIFFE, ALICE JANE MOTHER MARRIED 25 F 46 HOUSE KEEPER GRANGE OVER SANDS LANCS
RATCLIFFE, JOHN RUSSELL HEAD SINGLE M 22 SKILLED LABOURE PRESSER GLAZER IN FLYER TRADE LIMEFULL NR BURY LANCS
RATCLIFFE, EMILY ANNIE SISTER SINGLE F 16 CARD TENTER IN MILL COTTON BOLTON LANCS
RATCLIFFE, ALICE VICTORIA SISTER F 13 CALICO WEAVERS TENTER SCHOOL PART TIME BOLTON LANCS
RATCLIFFE, ELIZA SISTER F 10 SCHOOL BOLTON LANCS
RATCLIFFE, MILLY AN SISTER F 5 SCHOOL BOLTON LANCS
RAUSTHORN, SAMUEL LODGER WIDOWER M 76 OLD AGE PENSIONER BOLTON LANCS
TAYLOR, WILLIAM LODGER SINGLE M 40 SKEP MAKER WIGAN LANCS

Gosh he could be Arthur Richard and transposed his name for whatever reason. I didn't think of that.
Do you agree with me that the 'household' that came up on the free search of 1911 inclues people outside the correct family ?

any good

Marriages Dec 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greenhalgh Alice Jane Bury 8c 612
LEACH Sarah Ann Bury 8c 612
ODDIE Robert Bury 8c 612
RATCLIFFE Arthur Russell Bury 8c 612



Regards vera

Thank you everyone. I had posted the previous reply before I saw the 1911 transcript. Thank you so much for that. At least it proves m,y theory about the other Ratcliffe's was correct. Perhaps I'm not going mad after all !!

1901 England Census
about Arthur R Ratcliffe
Name: Arthur R Ratcliffe
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Bury; Limifield, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Bolton
Ecclesiastical parish: Deane St Mary the Virgin
Town: Bolton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Quarry man

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Hulton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur R Ratcliffe 36
William Walker 48


Dee x

The marriage in Bury looks good Vera.

From Lancs BMD.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1885
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
RATCLIFFE Arthur Russell GREENHALGH Alice Jane Walmersley, Christ Church Bury CE30/1/379

Christine

Thanks Christine...:o))

Regards Vera

Margaret Greenhalgh, Alice's mother, married William Worsley -



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1888 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

******Greenhalgh Margaret Bolton 8c 346
Kay Mary Alice Bolton 8c 346
Simm John Bolton 8c 346
******WORSLEY William Bolton 8c 346

1881 England Census
Name: Alice Jane Greenhalgh
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Great Bolton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 48 York St
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Domestic Servant

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Bolton Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Greenhalgh 54
Margaret Greenhalgh 48
Alice Jane Greenhalgh 17
John Greenhalgh 8
Emma Bridge 10




Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3840; Folio: 159; Page: 30; GSU roll: 1341918.

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1888
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
RATCLIFFE John Russell Walmersley Bury GREENHALGH WAL/18/21

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1888
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GREENHALGH Margaret WORSLEY William Bolton, St Peter Bolton 18/29/448

The place where Arthur R Ratcliffe was born near Bury is called LIMEFIELD, a tiny hamlet on the north side.

Going by the pob=Grange over Sands:

Births Jun 1864 (>99%)
GREENHALGH Alice Jane Ulverston 8e 671

Logged off yesterday with pouning headache and have just come back on. Thank you very much indee everyone. You have really paved the way. I appreciate your time.