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Hi I am trying to find my grandmother Beatrice Emily Barnard. She was born in 1912 in Wandsworth,. Her parents George W C Barnard and Esther E Trinder from Lambeth Surrey.

I can find her again (I think) she gave birth to Edward Barnard 1935 but I believe the baby died, as my father (living) was born May 5th 1936 in Rochford, Essex, and does not know of another baby. I think she lived the remainder of her life around this area. I am told she took her life at around age 40 so would have been 1952 approx. but can find no trace of her.

Here you are, Jacqueline! Got my advice about the subject line too late. ;)

I shall give it a go now.

For starters, there's no Edward Barnard birth in 1935.

And I don't see a Barnard birth with mother Barnard in Rochford in 1936 - your dad was registered with his father's surname? Ah, no, I see, with her assumed surname, anyway.

Right, and that was the surname Edward was registered under. Since you have given it, this is his death:

Name: Edward Pinder
Death Registration Month/Year: 1935
Age at death (estimated): 0
Registration district: Rochford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 765


And she did indeed marry - just with a slight alteration to her name!

Name: Emily B Barnard
Spouse Surname: Pinder
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1927
Registration district: West Ham
Registration county (inferred): Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 219

He was Cyril Pinder.

OMG how did you come up with it so quickly I am so excited ! Is there a death registered. I have tried so hard but am a complete novice!

Looking and looking ... but also rethinking. Born 1912, married 1927? Hm.

Births Mar 1912
Barnard Beatrice E Trinder Wandsworth 1d 1159


You're sure Pinder was the name she used? Obviously, I guess, it's your father's name ...

Yes my dad took on that name. I wondered if she found her mothers surname of Trinder on a document and read it as Pinder and thats why I couldnt find a marriage? She may have used Emily as her name, my dad did call her that once when we were talking.

You need to get that Barnard-Pinder marriage certificate, because the names are just too coincidental. I wonder whether she was pregnant and so married extremely young, but lost the pregnancy, for instance.



There's a Cyril Pinder born 1903, the only one 1900-1915 in the London area. This would be his death.

Name: Cyril Pinder
Death Registration Month/Year: 1950
Age at death (estimated): 47
Registration district: Hampstead
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 737

Being widowed could have led her to depression ...

You really need to get that marriage cert though --

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

to know whether that is your grandmother, because that will make all the difference to the search.

But what about your father's birth certificate? It will give the parents' names, since he was apparently registered in his father's name with his mother's name on the certificate. If you have his registration details and don't want to put them here, PM me so I know what I'm talking about. ;)

I have his birth cert. but its in the name of Barnard and no father mentioned.
She didnt stay with this man Cyril Pinder if it is him as my dad was (off & on)raised by a man named Sharp

PM me his birth details would you? Because there just isn't such a birth that I can see in the index.

Okay, you opened your tree, which is a quagmire. But yes, your father was not registered as Barnard. I don't know how his birth certificate could not show his father's name, since he was apparently registered in that name. I'll PM you the registration info, and you need to order a proper copy of that certificate, along with the Pinder-Barnard marriage certificate.

Just looked at his cert. and it is in the name of Pinder. Apologies. I can email it to you if you can provide me with an address.
I will send off for the marriage cert.
How will I know it is the correct person. No hope of a death cert. yet?
I appreciate your skills!

This is an interesting birth:
[deleted]

At about the time your grandmother died.

That is info about a person who could be living so I want to delete it before long, if you'd make a note of it offline? I just want it here for searching at the moment.


edit - no, there is a Sharp-Barnard marriage in Essex SW earlier in 1952 that probably accounts for that birth, so I've deleted it.

On the marriage certificate -- "How will I know it is the correct person"

It will give both parties' age and father's name and occupation. So you will be able to see whether they match Beatrice's.

You are absolutely positive that Beatrice E Barnard 1912, parents George Barnard and Esther Trinder, is your grandmother? Can you say how you know that?

Beatrice Emily Barnard 1912 1D 1159
My father knows nothing of her lineage.
Do you think it is wrong?

Okay, well you have never mentioned having another thread, and this makes me peevish.

If she is the Emily B Barnard who married Pinder, I doubt she is the Beatrice Emily Barnard born 1912.

I see the birth cert -- no father named, mother Beatrice Emily Pinder formerly Barnard.

So it looks like someone lighted on *a* Beatrice Emily Barnard with no evidence whatsoever that she was *your* Beatrice Emily Barnard, and you have adopted the info about that BEB. Wrong way around.

I would start with the marriage certificate and see where it leads.

How about?

Births Jun 1901
Barnard Emily Beatrice W. Ham 4a 430

She may have gone by Beatrice and so used that name first when she registered the birth - but married under her "official" name.

That birth would certainly be a better match with the possible Cyril Pinder.


Marriage certificate!!


And also the Edward Pinder birth certificate - which might possibly give the father's name.

Name: Edward Pinder
Mother's Maiden Surname: Barnard
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1935
Registration district: Rochford
Registration county: Essex, Suffolk
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 1026

Thought you had disappeared, just realised there is a page two. Told you I am not used to my way around this thing! I am so grateful for your hard work. Yes please this makes sense, I wondered about the Lambeth/ Essex thing, but of course people move around.

What's entirely possible is that

- Emily B Barnard who married Cyril Pinder in 1927 is your gal
- one or both of the children were not the children of Cyril Pinder

There is a "presumption of legitimacy" -- a child born during a marriage is presumed to be the child of the mother's husband and the birth registration can't contradict that. (Sometimes there is a parallel or later registration with the correct info, if the real parents subsequently marry.)

That would explain the absence of the father's name from the certificate.


Check your (real) email.

(I sent you an example of a re-registration, which doesn't seem to have happened with your dad.)

Thanks so much Janey you are a brick! (English expression). Will keep you posted. Have to send off to U.K for them, takes about 6 weeks.

Just read my real email :)