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i am trying to find a marriage for Frederick J T Norman (c1857) born Seaton, Cumberland, and Catherine Ann Stuart (c1862) born Maryport Cumberland. I have scoured the GRO. Their first child seems to be Mary Ann Norman born 1881 in Workington, (she married Charles Lennon 1884 from Whitehaven)Cumberland. Can anyone help? Or are these people in your family tree? D.Mathers

Mary Ann Norman 1881 do you have her birth cert?

MARY ANN NORMAN B. JUN QTR 1881 COCKERMOUTH

VOL 10b Page 568

Regards
Kath

FROM THE IGI.
CATHERINE ANN (STEWART) CH. 29/10/1862 MARYPORT
FATHER: ROBERT STEWART
MOTHER: SARAH


FROM FREE BMD

MARY ANN NORMAN 1881 COCKERMOUTH
ROBERT STUART NORMAN 1892 COCKERMOUTH
SARAH ELLEN NORMAN 1885 COCKERMOUTH

Are we on the correct family Doreen?

Kind Regards
Kath

Hi, yes you are on the right family. no i dont have any certificates at all. Someone mentioned to me yesterday about bishops transcripts?, because i couldnt find the marriage for frederick and catherine ann. Do you know what they are exaclty? Thanks for catherine anns birthdate. only had the year. I also cant find fredericks family, only found him as a child (i think) living in workington with his aunt and uncle (George and Martha Swinney). Have looked for a link but? Id be grateful for any info, i have seen that there are 3 frederick normans listed on marriages for england and wales 1538-1940, but i cant look at it. doreen

If you do not have any certs how do you know the surname of Catherine?

This MAYBE Fredericks Birth index

Births June (quarter) 1856
Frederick John Thompson NORMAN
Cockermouth 10b 449

1881 Workington
Robert Stewart 46 Mariner b Eastport State of Maine
Sarah Stewart 42 wife b Maryport
William 14
Peter M 10
Robert 8 all b Mary port
Frederick J T Horman (sic) 24 b Seaton son in law
Cathern A 18 daur b Maryport
Mary A 1 week grandaur b Workington

Frederick died 1905 Mar Q Cockermouth 10b 417

i know her surname because of census returns, info on ancestry.co.uk, baptism records for her children, at the local church. newspaper articles about her and her children, in the local newspaper.she has been researched by other people, and they cant find a marriage either. People also remember her, she is well remembered by my grandmother aunts and my mother, and she has many descendents in this area. Is there a possibility she wasnt married and just used the name Norman, because she was a very colourful character.Doreen

Just a thought !!!

Stuart is a scottish sounding name and Cumberland is quite close to there.

Perhaps her family was living in Scotland and they married up there??

Dea x

Have checked Scotlands people in case they eloped northof the border but no luck there
Maybe there were religious differences that prevented them marrying -they were too young for a previous marriage for either -in any case I cant find one

Catherine Anne married again after Fredericks death
!906 Mar Q Cockermouth 10b 854 Catherine Anne Norman to George David Henderson
This cert would show if she claimed to be a widow or not but the fact that she married under the name of Norman seems to indicate that there was a marriage with Frederick

As a former Vestry Clerk I can tell you that Parish Register Transcripts (also known as bishops Transcripts) are contemporary copies of the parish registers made by the incumbemt or his clerk and sent annually to the Bishop
Nowadays they are sent quarterly to county records but I cant see how they would be relevant here as we are looking post 1837 when National registration came in

Here's Fred in 1871:

1871 England Census
about Fredrick Normon
Name: Fredrick Normon
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Seaton, Cumberland, England
Civil parish: Workington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Workington
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Workington
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 97
Household Members: Name Age
George Swinney 68
Martha Swinney 66
Fredrick Normon 16

And he's with the same couple in 1861, age 4.

I have been trying to find connection with frederick and George and martha Swinney.
It's more than likely that it is Martha who is connected as she was from Maryport and George the Ilse Of Man.
On one census it says he was from Christ Rushan Isle of Man,a George Sweeney was christened 5/9/1802 by John Sweeney and Margaret Gill.
It says at Kirk Rushen but it was formerly Kirk Christ Rushen so I think this is George Swinney but should be Sweeney.
On saying that i still can't find a marriage for george and Martha.

Maryb

A long shot. There is a marriage of George Sweeney to Martha Bell, 9.6.1827 in Crosscanonby, Cumberland (IGI). In 1841, there is Margaret Lancaster 60, Henry Lancaster 15, John Norman 25 and William Bell 20, living :

1841 England Census
about Margret Lancaster
Name: Margret Lancaster
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1781
Gender: Female
Where born: Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Moresby
Hundred: Allerdale above Derwent
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Whitehaven
Sub-registration district: Harrington
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Margret Lancaster 60
Henry Lancaster 15
John Norman 25
Williams Bell 20

This could be the John and Elizabeth married in 1837.

1841 England Census
about John Norman
Name: John Norman
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Cumberland, England

Civil parish: St Cuthbert
Hundred: Cumberland
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: St Cuthbert
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Norman 30
Elizabeth Norman 25
Joseph Norman 3
Mary Norman 1

That could be Martha and george sweeney's marriage.
On census it says Martha born @ 1805 Maryport and there was Martha Bell christened in Maryport 21/5/1804 by thomas Bell and Martha.

Maryb

George and martha Sweeney christened these
Martha 8/3/1828 died
Sarah 25/7/1836
Margaret 15/6/1834
Thomas 17/4/1831
John 26/7/1829 all in maryport.

Maryb

1841 Margaret and Sarah Sweeney at Elizabeth Bell's born 1796 and Ann Bell 1821.