Find Ancestors

Right!! I can see yesterday's message now. I'll get there eventually.

The Derby parishes I'm interested in are St Alkmunds & St Peters

Anne

Hi Anne....try and be more specific..I do need some kind of date...and perhaps a specific question ......

Derek

Hi Derek
I'm trying to find the ancestors of John Ashby born c 1841. He married Elizabeth Elk(e)s (the sister of my g.grandmother) at St Peters Derby 24.12.1863. His father was Edwin Ashby but that is all I know) The occupation of both John & Edwin are given as fitter.

Elizabeth had a son Frederick (22.02.1874). Presumably his father was John Ashby but his name was not given on the birth certificate (registered at St Alkmunds Derby) & he was not given on the 1871 census at the same address as Elizabeth (46 Duke St Derby)

Not much to go on - & Ashby is a very common name.
Anne

Hi Anne.....are you sure about Edwin Ashby being his father????
I have a John Ashby baptised St.Peter's Derby 21.08.1840..and not much else...........at the moment.
EDIT 14.56..further to your 1871 census comments.......You'll see that Elizabeth is for some reason living with her parents....She was baptised 25.05.1841....and with her young child Mary A.
This tells me that her husband John is working away and is not on any census..or that he has dumped her...becasue i have a feeling..not confirmed, that John married again..on going challenge!!


Derek.

Hi Derek
I have a copy of the marriage certificate of John & Elizabeth & it gives John's father as Edwin.
I wondered if John had dumped Elizabeth but then who is the father of Frederick (born in 1874)? (he had the surname Ashby)
I suppose he could be illegitimate.

Anne

Hi Anne..if you look again at the 1871 Census..you'll find the prime suspect!!!....Brookes.

second suspect is on the 1901 Census where Frederick is named as "stepson" to the other guy in the house..one Thomas J Badger...."stepson" was often a euphemism for \natural or base-born....
My mother's marriage certificate had David \james Gregson "deceased" on it.........was a figment of my mother's imagination to cover up illegitimacy!!


what fun!!!........

Derek

HI Derek, I wonder if you could help me. I am trying to locate the birth of one Benjamin Blackwell I believe in Belper. I have located his two older Brothers Samuel and John through the IGI and I have found out about Benjamin's existance on the census returns but I cannot find his birth on the IGI. I think it should be 1836 (if the ages on the census are correct) I have been going round in circles on this one for some time now. I am hoping to confirm that his Father is John Blackwell and Mother Eliza Allen. Please could you have a look for me?

Many many thanks in advance.

Caroline

Thanks Derek. I'll do a bit of digging later today. I wonder if my mother knew this as she was very friendly with Fred. It could explain why Fred (& his son Laurie) were very good musicians & played in a quartet in Derby. I always wondered why that talent suddenly appeared in the family. That generation did keep a lot of things secret - like the fact that my mother's father had been in gaol. As you say - what fun!!!!!

Anne

Hello Caroline..yes this one is complicated by the fact that Benjamin is shown as "stepson" on the Census.....thus giving no clue as to real parents.
However, I can confirm that JOHN BLACKWELL and ELIZABETH nee ALLEN are their parents...and they were from Belper.

Belper is in the Parish of Duffield and i don't have those Records, but will confirm dates when I next go to Matlock Records Office.

The reason that the three boys are shown as stepsons is that ELIZABETH BLACKWELL their mother re-married 12.02.1838 to one BENJAMIN WESTWOOD..and move to Wolverhampton and later to Birmingham.

Which means that JOHN BLACKWELL must have died sometime after the birth of Benjamin in 1836...I'll check that one out for you.

Elizabeth Allen born Belper 1806 was the daughter of Isaac 1780.

I have details of the family from this period including some photographs.

If you need anything more..let me know

Derek

Hi Derek

That is FANTASTIC, thank you so much! I had managed to find the WESTWOOD coonection through the census returns but as all my reasearch is all internet based I do struggle sometimes to find what I am looking for. I am SO happy as well that you have clarified the Father of ELIZA being ISAAC. I had tentativly had that name for a while now but no way of confirming that was actually him. My connection is that ELIZA Allen & JOHN BLACKWELL were my 3X Grt Grandparents on my Fathers side so it is a direct line straight back to them. I would be so grateful of anything you could tell me about the family. I live in Kent so getting anywhere close to Derbyshire is a near impossibility for me. I would love to see any photos that you may have too.

Thank you so very much!
kind Regards
Caroline

Caroline..you'll love this then!!..I never let go!!.......
ISAACE ALLEN married MARY LAUNDER 30.11.1801 at Belper..and they are the parents of ELIZABETH ALLEN baptised Belper 10.07.1807.. and just as a bonus.and another generation back!!..ISAAC ALLEN born 13.08.1778 Duffield (i.e Belper) was the son of THMAS ALLEN and HANNAH
EDIT 23.09...ok.had a good look at your impressive tree.very accurate..don't know why you need me!!......you can add one or two things that i have given you..the photos i have access to are for the Westwood family..if you want to go that route. otherwise the later Blackweels you have obviously got from the census. returns..
Please let me know if i can help you further.

..better go and have a large Scotch before my brilliance overwhelms me!

Derek

Caroline..the furthest i can go back without going to the Matlock Records Office is::

THOMAS ALLEN married HANNAH SHAW at Belper..11.08.1769..parents of ISAAC...........see previous message.

Derek

Derek....wow.... fantastic what can I say?

Thank you so very very much!

Also thank you for your compliments on my tree. I don't normally open it for people to see as I am very unsure of the detail on it, not being able to get the relavent records offices to clarify what I find, it is purely from census returns and the IGI. But you have made me feel more confident of my findings.

Can I be really cheeky now too?

I think from my findings that John and Eliza(beth) Blackwell, as well as having Samuel, John and Benjamin, also had an elder son, Edward Blackwell, born c1827 in Belper. Can you confirm this from the records?

The pictures of the Westwoods...yes I would love to see if possible. I know they are not direct line ancestors but it helps to make up the bigger family unit and, to see pictures of peolpe that had direct dealings (possibly) with my ancestors would be great.

Once again thank you, I cannot tell you how chuffed I am to have gained so much help and information in such a short time.

Kind regards

Caroline

Hi Derek
Sorry, me again.
Thninking along the Blackwell line, I have two other marriages. As well as John to Eliza(beth) Allen, I have found :-

ROBERT BLACKWELL marrying MARY PAYNE in DUFFIELD 1827
and
SAMUEL BLACKWELL marrying MARY ALLEN in DUFFIELD 1828

My two thoughts on this are:-
1) can I assume they are MY John Blackwells siblings as I cannot find parents for them?

2) Is there a chance that MARY ALLEN could be Eliza(beth) Allens sibling?

These were not on my tree as they are still very much just questions and I cannot confirm anything solidly. Could you tell me your thoughts on them please?

KInd regards

Caroline

Hi Caroline..nice to find someone who doesn't just add to their tree without being sure........

I would need the Duffield Registers to be sure..but I think for now it would NOT be safe to assume anything about Robert and Samuel.....I can't find their parents at this moment and ROBERT BLACKWELL who married MARY PAYNE 1827 was born in Hazlewood c 1803....moved to Denby and was not in Belper till sometime after 1861.......they had TEN children.

Can't find Samuel yet..nor can i find a Mary Allen that fits.

There was. however a son EDWARD BLACKWELL belper 1827 son of John and Eliza(Beth)...same couple?? who knows.

More later.

Derek

Hi Derek

Thank you for that. I wouldn't add them for the exact reasons you have said. No real proof yet! I have got notes on all of them seperately just to see if anything fits later but for now they are on hold.

As for Edward Blackwell he has been a difficult one to follow. Like we have found, the parents are John and Eliza(beth) Blackwell. I have managed to trace an Edward Blackwell b1827 /1828 all the way through the census returns (with one miss spelling, so that was a hard one to find) he appeared to marry a MARIAN and his first born was called JOHN. Marian subsequently died quiet early on as Edward is always listed as Widower. What is interesting is that he too went to Wolverhampton. To follow his younger brothers maybe?? I am still going through the census returns at the moment to see if I can pin point anything that will definatley link him to the others??? Would love to know what you think about him

Kind regards

Caroline

Hi Derek
I got a bit distracted over the weekend as the Central Heating packed up. Why can't it do that in a heatwave?
Anyway..... I had noticed Brooks as a lodger but hadn't thought about him being a suspect. My mother used to tell me that a lot of houses in Derby let out a bed to men (or women) who came looking flor work. In fact, they often rented out the same room to 2 men on shift work so that one slept at night & the other in the day.
On balance I think we can ignore him but Thomas Badger is very likely to be guilty. I see in the 1881 Census that we have Thomas, Eliza (Elizabeth)? & Frederick at
5 Gisborne st. Derby. (THomas's birthplace is given as Warton. I think Wafston in the 1901 census is probably a mis spelling).
... but I haven't found any more about John Ashby or what happened after he dumped Elizabeth - or vice versa. I'll go on searching. Thanks for your help. Anne
Thaks

Hi Derek
Does the James connected to these Goulds link with my James c1750 Hartington who married Hellin Thomson?

James but no details of a wife the dates might fit he was the son of Thomas (a Mercer) of Ashbourn and Sarah nee Davenport. Thomas the father died 1824. I have no further details on James

All help gratefully received.
Thanks Karen

hi derek
i am trying to help a lady with her tree she is looking for a marriage between an alfred john shepherd and elizabeth? she was from derbyshire born 1797
thing is dont know where in derbyshire 2 children know of 1830 and 1833
nottingham
any help appreciated sharon

Hi Sharon........rather too vague to give me a chance.......Elizabeth?.....I cannot find and Alfred John Shepherd.......there are several John Shepherds........one of whom was married to an Elizabeth........but none of it is of any use without some more information.........now if you know the names of the two children 1830 and 1833........that's another thing....thaqt could be all i need to get started.

Derek