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Hi.

I have a relly Henry Johns that married an Elizabeth. On the 1861 census Henry is a widow and listed as son-in-law to a Jane Gates.
Therefore I would assume Henrys wife was Elizabeth Gates.
The only marriage I can find on Family Search is for a Henry Johns marrying an Elizabeth Meaps. (1830 Spitalfields Christs Church Stepney London.)
On the 1841 census Henry and Elizabeth are the same age and were both born about 1811. Elizabeth was born in Limehouse London Middlesex as was Jane Gates.
Was Meaps a transcription error I wonder. Can anybody check the parish records for Spitalfields Christ Church.
Thanks for any help.

Dud.

Can you give the details of the 1861 census because I can't find Henry with Jane Gates on Ancestry.

Kath. x

Where was Henry born?

1861 - no sign of HENRY

Name: Jane Gates
Age: 74
Estimated birth year: abt 1787
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Limehouse, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Westminster St James
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: St James Westminster
Sub-registration district: Golden Square
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 812
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Malcolm 40
Isala Malcolm 17
Jas Malcolm 6
Alice Malcolm 2
Robt Jessep 58
Anne Jessep 65
Cathe Eden 41
Mary Saunders 33
Ellen Jessep 31
Teresa Saunders 7
Jane Gates 74
Emily Johns 18
Louisa Johns 4

hi there are two marriages on ancestry one is elizabeth heaps 3rd of feb 1830 spitalfields there another one 31st of jan 1830 elizabeth heaps do you want me to see who the witiness are they might give you a clue for gates

1851 for Emily as per 1861

Name: Emily Johns
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Eliza J
Gender: Female
Where born: St James, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 384
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Johns 40 born Tiverton Devon
Eliza J Johns 40 born Limehouse
Eliza Johns 11
Henry Johns 9
Emily Johns 7
George Johns 5
Helen Johns 3 Mo

Is this the couple on the 1841 census (she is recorded as Eliza not Elizabeth):-

Name: Henry Johns
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Civil parish: St Anne Soho
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

View image
Registration district: Strand
Sub-registration district: St Anne Westminster
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age

Henry Johns 30
Eliza Johns 30

Eliza is born in the county of Middlesex but Henry is not.

There is a 17 year old William Gates further up the page.

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 730; Book: 7; Civil Parish: St Anne Soho; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 14; Folio: 21; Page: 34; Line: 14; GSU roll: 438833.

If this is the correct couple then this seems to be them in the 1851 census:-

Name: Henry Johns
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza J
Gender: Male
Where born: Tiverton, Devon, England
Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation: Tailor (same in 1841)

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 384
Household Members:
Name Age

Henry Johns 40
Eliza J Johns 40
Eliza Johns 11
Henry Johns 9
Emily Johns 7
George Johns 5
Helen Johns 3 Mo

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1486; Folio: 430; Page: 69; GSU roll: 87811-87812.

If the above is the correct couple then this is the birth of the youngest child on the 1851 census:-

Name: Helen Johns
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Marylebone (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1
Page: 159

The certificate would give you her mother's full name.

Kath. x

Eliza jnr with her grandparents in 1841

Name: Eliza Johns
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Anne Soho
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Strand
Sub-registration district: St Anne Westminster
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Gates 45
Jane Gates 45
George Gates 15
Eliza Johns 1

her parents in 1841

Henry not born in County - occupation Tailor

Name: Henry Johns
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Gender: Male

Civil parish: St Anne Soho
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Strand
Sub-registration district: St Anne Westminster
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Johns 30
Eliza Johns 30

Nowhere is Henry's wife recorded as Elizabeth................

Hi
Sorry all. Having trouble with mousey. I should have said Jane Gates and Henry appear on the 1871 census not 1861. However on the 1871 Janes place of birth is transcribed as Laneham Middleses.
Thanks all for helping. Dud.

Hi to Adamsmum.
The Family Search record I have gives the marriage as 3/feb 1830. The names of the witnesses would help I think. Dud.

Henry is still very much married in 1861 - proof reading postings before submitting seems to be dying art

Name: Henry Johns
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Tiverton, Devon, England

Civil parish: Westminster St James
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: St James Westminster
Sub-registration district: Berwick Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 418
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Johns 50
Eliza Johns 50
George Johns 15
Frances Johns 7
Theodore Staines 41

1871

Name: Jane Gates
Age: 83
Estimated birth year: abt 1788
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Laneham, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St James Westminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St John The Baptist
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: Berwick Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 245
Household Members: Name Age
Jane Gates 83
Henry John 61
Eliza Drenchfield 30 Granddaughter
Loura Drenchfield 13
Thomas Drenchfield 10
Amelia Drenchfield 5

Hi Freewheel.
Sorry about the proof readiong. I should be far more careful. Dud.

Thats the one Freewheel. Would you agree that if Henry is the son-in-law then his former wife must have been Elizabeth Gates.? Bless you for all your troubles. Dud.

As we have tried to point out - her name in NOT recorded as Elizabeth on ANY census.

OK - you're forgiven - ha ha!

Very few records are actually on the IGI - you will need to try to access Parish records for Middlesex. Certainly the Stepney marriage would seem to be nowhere in the frame for this couple

Hi Freewheel. Thanks for all your help. I have tried ELIZA on Familysearch but still no luck. The only one that keeps coming up is Elizabeth Meaps. Think I'll find another hobby. Dud x

If you buy the birth certificate for Helen Johns born 1851 it will give you Eliza's full name.

Kath. x

The marriage which you keep mentioning (which I don't think is the right one either) is actually to Elizabeth Heaps and not Meaps. The original is on Ancestry's London marriages.

Name: Henry Johns
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Heaps
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Feb 1830
Parish: Christ Church, Spitalfields
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets

The witnesses look like Sarah Calvert and Robert Root.

Robert Root was a witness on another marriage on the same page. In the 1841 census Robert Root is the Parish Clerk so he may not have been a friend or relation. Parish Clerks were often witnesses to a lot of marriages.

Kath. x

Dudley - back then the relationship son-in-law also included the relationship we now call stepson as well the modern daughter's husband.