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Thank you ladies for your help, I will leave this thread up for a while
and will look in a bit later

Much appreciated

Ray

I've had a look at the possible siblings marriages of Williams and unfortunately he isn't a witness at any of the marriages.

I'm not sure where you could go from here........... the 2 are so closely linked that it maybe impossible to say which one your William is...... unless there are records at Kew for the orphanage?


Dee x

Hi Eileen

Yes I know Chelmsford very well I agree its a good lead

but I need to establish if William 1828/30 had parents

or not. both options are feasable

Ray x

Don' want to seem picky,but Chelmsford is in Essex!!,so not that far from Islington.
Eileen

Hi Dee

Its all rather confusing ?? I am not sure which direction to go.
I looked at your 1841 census for the London Orphan Asylum
and agree with you the original writing does look to say
Kingsland rather than Kingstone and the Orphanage is
or should I say was less than a mile from Kingsland
so that seems a good lead

Ray

Hi ray,

Could William Snr have been the foundling? The name isn't that popular and looking at th baptism records there are a few children born to William and Sarah (including Edward), these were all baptised in the Islington area pointing to the possible that they were born to the same parents.

The 1841 census that Eileen speaks about was in Kent, however it states that none of them were born in the county, so a possible? There is a death for a William Kingsland in 1849 in Wandsworth. And then there is this marriage;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Sarah Kingsland
Name: Sarah Kingsland
Spouse Name: Charles Elliott
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 16 Mar 1851
Parish: Saint John The Baptist, Hoxton
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Thomas Murray
Spouse Father Name: Paul Elliott

Both widowers......... the address given is Marys Row, I have seen this address on one of the baptism records for the children of William and Sarah.


1851 England Census
about Sarah Elliot
Name: Sarah Elliot
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1805
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Hammersmith

Civil parish: Islington
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:Marys Row

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 42
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 102
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Elliot 44
Sarah Elliot 46
Thomas Kingsd 9 Born Inglesham, Essex
Charles Kingsd 6 Born Islington


The im age for Thomas and Chrles states Kingsland.
Deee x

To Denise and Eileen

I am very grateful for your time and efforts

I am aware of William stating that his fathers name was William
on his marriage cert of 1854,,,, I thought that he msybe just said
he had a father rather than just leaving it blank ???

I am also aware of the Cordell/Jones link on his wife Emma
but it is good to have this all together
The reason I am stuck at William 1828/30 is that 20 years ago,
my uncle paid for a family tree search and the result was that

William Kingsland abt 1828/30 was a foundling, I never got to see
the results, and 4 years later my uncle died and I have no idea
of the whereabouts of this paperwork

The thing that is in my mind is that William and Emma named their 1st daughter Emma and the next one was called ,,,Sarah ??? was she named after his mother Sarah ??

Ray

Try HO 107 p 325 f 34 page 22
Chelmsford Kingsland
William 37,Sarah 37 William 14 Edward 1
Wm snr is a lab,but all neighbours are brickmakers.
I did find a Henry born in 1830, same Baptism venue as William,but he could have died.
Cheers Eileen

I know I'm going off track here a little.... b ut if you don't have these it would be such a shame not to post them;

The Witnesses from Benjamin Cordell and Eliza Jones marriage........ the area will be of interest seeing as Emma Kingsland nee Jones was also born here;

1851 England Census
about James Wiltshire
Name: James Wiltshire
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1820
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Ware, Hertfordshire, England

Civil parish: Ware
Town: Ware
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Ware
Sub-registration district: Hoddesdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 5k
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
James Wiltshire 31
Jane Wiltshire 28 Born Ware, Hertfordshire
Eliza Wiltshire 7
Joseph Wiltshire 5
Benjamin Wiltshire 2
Henry Wiltshire 2
George Wiltshire 4 Mo


Their marriage;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1843 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bearman William Ware 6 799
Brown Ann Ware 6 799
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cordell Jane Ware 6 799
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wilsher James Ware 6 799


Think that brings that about full circle.


Dee x

The wtnesses from William and Emma' marriage........... is Eliza Cordell actually Emmas sister??

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Eliza Jones
Name: Eliza Jones
Spouse Name: Benjamin Cordell
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Sep 1845
Parish: Saint John At Hackney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: John Jones
Spouse Father Name: Joseph Cordell


Witnesses; James & Jane Wiltsher.



Dee x

So this is your Williams marriage, confirming his fathe was William;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Emma Jones
Name: Emma Jones
Spouse Name: William Kingsland
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 12 Nov 1854
Parish: Saint Pancras Parish Church
County: Middlesex
Borough: Camden
Father Name: John Jones (deceased)
Spouse Father Name: William Kingsland (deceased)

William and Emma were both from Cambridge Street and William Jnrs occupation was a Labourer.

Witnesses were Benjamin Cordell and Eliza Cordell??


Dee x

There are a few more births for William and Sarah Kingsland, however the rest state Williams occupation as a Labourer except this other one;

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Henry Kingsland
Name: Henry Kingsland
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 6 Jun 1830
Father's Name: William Kingsland
Mother's Name: Sarah Kingsland
Parish: Saint Mary
Borough: Islington
County: Middlesex


William Snr was a Brickmaker


Dee x

Thank you both very much will look closer when I get back

(dont wanna go out now,,boo hoo)

Ray

Hi, There is a baptism record. St Mary's Islington for William Kingsland
24/2/1828 son of William ans Sarah. William Snr is a brickmaker.
Eileen
Most people then had a very erratic idea about thei birthdate!!

Hi Ray,

This looks like a possible, the original image is very poor BUT I think it states Kingsland and he is an Orphan Boy;

1841 England Census
about Willm Kingstone
Name: Willm Kingstone
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St John Hackney
Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Hackney
Neighbors: View others on page

Lots of other children with him, too many to list,

Dee x

Sorry got to rush out now, will check back later,

If only I can find his whereabouts in 1851 ??

Ray

Hi Dee

Thank you for that, I had seen this record before but never knew the,
address which I think sounds rather appropriate lol
I thought he stated he was from Kent in this record,,,
I must have confused it so once again thank you

Ray x

Hi Ray,

Could this be him,

1851 England Census
about Willm Kingland
Name: Willm Kingland
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Islington
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:6 Orphan Place

Occupation:labourer

Condition as to marriage: Unmarried

Disability: View image

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 23a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 409
Household Members: Name Age
John Rosewell 68
Elizh Rosewell 65
James Rosewell 18
Jane Rosewell 15
Charles Rosewell 10
Willm Kingland 21


Dee x

I am hoping one or some of you lovely people could please,
do a look up for me regarding my Greatgreat grandfather

I have his Marriage cert for 1854 Pancras to Emma Jones

The 1st census I can find him on is 1861 Dodds brickfields
Hayes Middlesex

What has been handed down through family through the,
generations is that William Kingsland was a Foundling,
given the surname of the area/road he was found in
Kingsland Middlesex (Islington) then put in the workhouse,

I am assuming this would be the Shorditch workhouse ?
his estamated year of birth is 1828
he spent all his working life making bricks so assume he learnt his trade in the brickfields of Islington or St Pancras
on his death cert his proffesion states Journeyman Brickmaker,

I did go to the records office but ran out of time, and am not,
sure when I can get back there, so if anyone can trace him for me,
before 1854 I would be very grateful.

ps I will be going out soon so will check back later

Ray