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A cordwainer makes shoes or other objects from fine leather (we learn something new every day).

Sharon.

thanks to everyone for the info so nice of you to help me.
ive noticed in one where Ellen was living there was a lady named harriett keen and i remember my grandmothers best friends surname was keen so its possible that their mothers were friends too.any idea what a cordwainer is?
thanks again lynda

Hmm. It DOES look like cordwainer. Just a complete turnabout from school master,though.
Maureen

I think Richards occupation reads cordwainer - ties in with the 1851 mistranscribed as Edmons
(as above!)

1851 Ancestry
Name: Ellen Edmons
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Pentonville St James
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district: Pentonville
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 142
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Edmons 45 Whatever his occupation is-it looks like what's on Ellen's marriage entry. What DOES that say??
Mary Edmons 45
Ellen Edmons 5
Mary Edmons 14
Walter Edmons 11
Edmund Edmons 9
George Edmons 3
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1518; Folio: 342; Page: 27; GSU roll: 87852.

Maureen

This could be Alfred in 1861. Fathers occ Gardener

1861 England Census
about Alfreds Franklin
Name: Alfreds Franklin
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Danlston, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: Haggerston St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Haggerstone West
ED, institution, or vessel: 18e
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Franklin 55
Sarah Franklin 50
Ellen Franklin 20
Alfreds Franklin 15


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Original
Record

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the brothers in the family were Alfred
Arthur and Edgar
thanks so much for taking the trouble to look things up for me
lynda

This is a possibility for Ellen in 1861. Fathers occ is former schoolmaster.

Name: Ellen Edmonds
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard
Gender: Female
Where born: Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Islington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 44
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 136
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Edmonds 56
Mary Edmonds 56
Mary Ann Edmonds 24
Edmund Edmonds 19
George Edmonds 16
Ellen Edmonds 14
Jane Edmonds 8
Robert Green 19
Harriett Keen 26
Thomas Borns 39
Sarah Borns 40
Susannah Bulline 39


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Original
Record

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Same census records but for Ellen..

1881 England Census about Ellen C. Franklin
Name: Ellen C. Franklin
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Alfred W.
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England <<<<<<<<<<<

1891 England Census about Ellen C Franklin
Name: Ellen C Franklin
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Alfred W
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England <<<<<<<<<<<<

1871 England Census about Ellen C Edmonds
Name: Ellen C Edmonds
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Islington All Saints
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Household schedule number: 484
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Gregory 53
Charlotte A Gregory 20
Elizabeth L Gregory 18
Caroline H Gregory 16
Minnie E S Osbourne 2
William Hodson 48
Ann Johnson 26
Ellen C Edmonds 24
James Rouch 26

ADDRESS .. Thorn Hill Arms

This could be the family that Sharon gave you ... BUT .. no Alfred

1851 England Census about Joseph Franklin
Name: Joseph Franklin
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Great Missenden, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: Haggerstone West <<<<<<<<
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:
Occupation:

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Haggerstone West
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Franklin 45
Sarah Franklin 42
Edward Franklin 12
Ellen Franklin 8
Edmund Franklin 7

I can not find an Alfred Franklin with father 'Joseph'...

Found 1851 census..

Alfred Franklin ; father .. William Geo ; mother .. Martha Ann
Born abt 1845 Stepney, Middlesex, England ; residence .. Stepney, Middlesex,

in 1861..

Alfred Franklin ; father .. Wm Geo ; mother .. Martha Ann
Born abt 1845 Mile End Old Town ; residence .. Shoreditch St Leonard, Middlesex

many thanks Julcoe yes it is my family but i was given the other birthdate.

Could this be a possibility

Name: Alfred William Francklin
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 28 Jan 1844
Father's Name: Joseph Francklin
Mother's Name: Sarah Francklin
Parish: Saint Mary, Haggerston
Borough: Hackney
County: Middlesex

Joseph is a gardener

thank you so much im very grateful where did you manage to find this?im such a novice at it all.
lynda

?? Is this your family ?? .. Ellen's age is different than what you stated..

1891 England Census about Alfred W Franklin
Name: Alfred W Franklin
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen C
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, London, England

Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:
Occupation:

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Upper Holloway
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred W Franklin 47
Ellen C Franklin 45
Alfred J Franklin 12
Arthur J Franklin 9
Edgar E Franklin 5

1881 England Census about Alfred W. Franklin
Name: Alfred W. Franklin
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen C.
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Marys Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 51 Jackson Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Fishmonger Assist

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 66
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred W. Franklin 36
Ellen C. Franklin 33
Alfred J. Franklin 1

marriage shows Alfred William Franklin married Ellen Cook Edmunds Sept 10th 1876 Holy Trinity Church Islington, Alfreds fathers name is Joseph (a gardener) and Ellens father is Richard (can't read occ.)

Im trying to trace my great great grandparents
these are the parents of Alfred w Franklin born stepney 1846 and Ellen c Edmunds born 1835 id be grateful for any help please.
lynda