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Hi Maureen
I have sent an email to GRO to ask if they can help and provide the reference number and then obviously the birth certificate but I am still waiting for a reply, I may send them another email, i think this is going to be only way to confirm the mother, I am convinced it is Mary Williams, so will get a shock if its not, and that will throw a spanner in the works! Hope to hear from GRO soon though and will let you know when I do.

Vicki

Vicki,
Did you even try for the overseas birth cert of one of the Watts-Evans children?????

Maureen

Many thanks Potty, i will check that out as if I am correct about his wife, her father was a master mariner and at least 1 of his other daughters got married at sea.

Appreciated

Vicki

This site has marriages at sea:
http://www.theshipslist.com/Forms/marriagesatsea.html
but I can't find your William!

Hi
I have still had no luck finding this man! Thanks to all the help above I do now know:

He was born around 1872 in Cardiff - however do not seem to be able to find a birth registration for William T Watts-Evans - any ideas?

In 1919 he stayed/visited an address in Ruthin, North Wales (Oakleigh), on the 1911 census the servant there is an Elizabeth Evans - could this be a sister, although her place of birth is Ruthin, North Wales, or a relative, could this be a clue to William Watts-Evans, hypehating his own name and simply being born an Evans?

I know he married but again can find no marriage registration. I THINK he married a Mary/May Williams who was born in New Ferry Cheshire but again can find no record of this marriage. I assume it was around the mid 1890's early 1900's.

The marriage could have taken place in Shanghai as he had 4 children all born in Shanghai between 1900 and about 1908, all under the name of Watts-Evans (William Lloyd, Gywnfryd, Isabella Dilys and Iola) - is there anybody who can check for this marriage overseas for me please?

And finally I can find no death record either, but again I am searching the UK only, as you can see from the passenger lists above, he is a well travelled man.

Thanks

Condensing threads here

Many births pre 1875 werent being registered so It may be his birth wasnt registered .
It became law in 1875 that births MUST be registered with a fine for late or none registration, which had to be done within 42 days ie 6 weeks of birth

well thats another little snippet of info as I never knew Lloyd was William Lloyd, it seems the whole of this side of the family were christened one name and actually called another one in real life! Thier mother 'Mrs' Watts-Evans was known as Maise but I think her actual name was Mary, hence the search! However, William is Mary's father's name so is this another clue that I am correct in who she is?

I will follow your link to GRO and see where I get, no harm in asking them to look it up, you never know, I will let you know if I have any success.

Thanks again
Vicki

how annoying

took a look as well

there are two hand written at the bottom of the page

one looks like iola but cant make the other out

Hi Vicki,
Massive shrug on my part...
Maybe read through:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/faqs-overseas.asp#o10
The one I can make out the clearest is:
Watts-Evans William L. Shanghai (then it says see volume 18??? or 13????)
GRO CONSULAR BIRTH INDICES 1901 - 1905

Good luck!!!

Maureen

wow thanks for all that Loraine and Maureen, our Mr Watts-Evans certainly travelled around! 2 very frustrating things, on one of the passenger lists he names Mrs Watts-Evans as his next of kin, its her first name i'm desperate to confirm! Typical, and then the GRO references, Maureen, how would i go about asking even if the chance is slight? And who do i ask etc. Thanks again everyone

Good news is I can see the Watts-Evans births in Shanghai on the Consular Records at FMP. Bad news is that they are all scrunched at the bottoms of the pages and I can read neither their given names (except for William L) nor the GRO refs.

I wonder how flexible the GRO would be about finding these for you? (I can hear the laughter now....)

Maureen

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Mr W T Watts Evans
Name: Mr W T Watts Evans
Birth Date: abt 1882
Age: 46
Port of Departure: Brisbane, Australia
Arrival Date: 24 May 1928
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide, Colombo, Port Said, Gibraltar, Hobart, Naples, Toulon, Fremantle, Southampton
Ship Name: Osterley
Search Ship Database: View the 'Osterley' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Orient Line
Official Number: 128287


boarded in colombo and last residence was india
occupation merchant

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about William T Watts Evans
Name: William T Watts Evans
Birth Date: abt 1871
Age: 48
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 17 Apr 1919
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Orduna
Search Ship Database: View the 'Orduna' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: The Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 135539

this one gives an address

of oakleigh ruthin north wales

last residence usa

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about William T Watts Evans
Name: William T Watts Evans
Birth Date: abt 1871
Age: 48
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 17 Apr 1919
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Orduna
Search Ship Database: View the 'Orduna' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: The Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 135539

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
about William Evans - Watts
Name: William Evans - Watts
Gender: Male
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Birth Country: Wales
Date of Arrival: 22 Aug 1925
Vessel: Marburn
Search Ship Database: View the 'Marburn' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Glasgow, Scotland
Roll: T-14718

born in cardiff
merchant en route to hong kong

next of kin wife
mrs watts evans
trefon aughton lancs



California Passenger and Crew Lists, 1893-1957
about Wlliam Thomson Watts Evans
Name: Wlliam Thomson Watts Evans
Arrival Date: 1 Mar 1919
Age: 49
Birth Date: abt 1870
Birthplace: Cardiff, Wales
Gender: Male
Ethnicity: Welsh

Ship Name: Ecuador
Port of Arrival: San Francisco, California
Port of Departure: Manila, Philippines
Destination: London, England
Last Residence: Hong Kong

last residence victoria hong kong

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Wm Thomas Watts-Evans
Name: Wm Thomas Watts-Evans
Birth Date: abt 1871
Age: 55
Port of Departure: Montrã©AL, Quã©Bec, Canada
Arrival Date: 19 Jun 1926
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ship Name: Moldavia
Search Ship Database: View the 'Moldavia' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Canadian Pacific Steamship Line
Official Number: 14230



on this one it says his country of last residence was india
and he boarded in port said


the 1929 he boarded in colombo which is sri lankaor ceylon as it was then known and his last perminant residence was england

Thanks, the other 2 girls also married in the Ormskirk district, but were only using the Evans part of their name, as I think their mother was. This is why I want to trace the marriage of William Watts-Evans to confirm his wifes name, as all their children were born in Shanghai I am unable to get birth certificates.

Vicki

daughters marriage?

Name: Isabella D Watts-Evans
spouse: Thomas W Saul
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1929
Registration district: Ormskirk
Registration county (inferred): Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 1742
??death index
Name: Dilys Isabella Saul
Birth Date: 18 Jan 1906
Death Registration Month/Year: Jul 2002
Age at death (estimated): 96
Registration district: Salisbury
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Register number: B58C
District and Subdistrict: 7951B
Entry number: 48

Many thanks Jansmith, at least I now have a birth date. I originally assumed he was from Wales as although Mary Williams was born in Cheshire her whole family for generations are from North Wales, Caernarfon / Anglesey area. However I also know William Watts-Evans had 4 children, all born in Shanghai (Lloyd about 1900, Isabella Dilys 1903, Gwynfryd 1906 & Iola born ?). I would really like to find his marriage though to confirm his wifes name.

I'm signing off now in favour of sleep so will respond tmw if there are any queries.

searching Watts-Evans surname seems to come mostly from Wales

2 entries
Name: Mr W T Watts-Evans
Birth Date: abt 1872
Age: 57
Port of Departure: Brisbane, Australia
Arrival Date: 23 May 1929
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide, Colombo, Suez, Port Said, Naples, Toulon, Gibraltar, Fremantle, Southampton
Ship Name: Oronsay
Search Ship Database: View the 'Oronsay' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Orient Steam Navigation Company
Official Number: 147948

AND
Name: Wm Thomas Watts-Evans
Birth Date: abt 1871
Age: 55
Port of Departure: Montrã©AL, Quã©Bec, Canada
Arrival Date: 19 Jun 1926
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ship Name: Moldavia
Search Ship Database: View the 'Moldavia' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Canadian Pacific Steamship Line
Official Number: 142305

I think one of my relatives married overseas or on board a ship & was wondering if anyone could check world ancestry for me please. The name is William Thomas Watts-Evans, I'm afraid I know no more, don't know when and where he was born, I have so far failed to find other than him on a passenger list as a sales rep in the 1920's coming into the UK. I am guessing he was born around 1875 give or take 10 years. I believe he married a Mary Williams, born in New Ferry, Cheshire, 1880ish.

Not much to go on I know, I had hoped the Watts-Evans name would make him easy to trace but not so in the UK.

Thanks