Find Ancestors

HI there
my g grandad richard petty 1857 was married to elizabeth1853 .they had 3 children ellen 1885 lily 1887 and james1880 (my grandfather )I have not been able to find any details of james birth .I know that he died in 1916 aged 35.There seems to be no record of the marrige of richard and elizabeth either so i have been unable to find a maiden name for his mother.I appear to have hit a brick wall and have spent many hours searching.Thought I could try lily or ellens birth details but again no luck.Please can anyone help me ? Thankyou very much Sue

And what part of the world/country would we be searching in please?

1901 England Census
about Lily Petty
Name: Lily Petty
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Female
Where born: New Malden, Surrey, England

For ref...

Different wife in 1891 and 1881 for richard.....Elizabeth

1891 England Census
about Elizabeth Petty
Name: Elizabeth Petty
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Richard
Gender: Female
Where born: Langley Hots, Offaly, Ireland

Civil parish: Kingston
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: New Malden
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Petty 34
Elizabeth Petty 38
James Petty 10
Ellen Petty 5
Lily Petty 3


1881 England Census
about Elizabeth Petty
Name: Elizabeth Petty
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Richard
Gender: Female
Where born: Kings Langley, Hertfordshire, England

Civil parish: Kingston On Thames
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address: Waterloo Place
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Laundress

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Petty 26
Elizabeth Petty 28
James R. Petty <<<<<<9 months
Thomas Petty 15

Going on the details from 1881 census James R Petty was born in july 1880,and would therefore most prob have been reg in the sept q.
Staying in the reg district of Kingston there is only one possible birth of a James R of any surname...

Births Sep 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SEERS James Richard Kingston 2a 302


Wonder if he was reg in Elizabeths name due to them not being married?

And Lily...??

Births Jun 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seers Lily Esther Kingston 2a 338
**************************************************************

And Ellen??

Births Sep 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seers Ellen Elizabeth Kingston 2a 325

I cant find any of those Seers children on census and Lily is a more unusual name.

The james Richard Seers birth can be crossed off only by getting the cert and seeing what the mothers name is and the address I think,as it could well have the 1881 census address on it for James R Petty.

I also note that Richard petty has a little sister on 1871 called Esther,which is the second name of Lily Seers on the birth reg.

Hi there many thanks for your help.There is confusion over the surnames of petty and seers.Richards father thomas married rachel seers in 1858.she had 3 children john eliza and richard.in1861 census richard was still seers but by 1871 both richard and john were known as petty.so thomas was their stepfather.I cannot understand therefore why james ellen and lily were registered in their stepmothers name of seers as thomas and rachel were now married.my grandfather was always known as james r petty. I have obtained the birth cert of james r seers which shows his mother as being elizabeth huckles and his father as richard seers.So why revert back to the seers surname ? Sorry if this all sounds very confused but I do find it extremely frustrating and really would appreciate some help in trying to unravel it all.Kingston and new malden was the family area for generations.Thanks Sue

Hi there many thanks for your help.There is confusion over the surnames of petty and seers.Richards father thomas married rachel seers in 1858.she had 3 children john eliza and richard.in1861 census richard was still seers but by 1871 both richard and john were known as petty.so thomas was their stepfather.I cannot understand therefore why james ellen and lily were registered in their stepmothers name of seers as thomas and rachel were now married.my grandfather was always known as james r petty. I have obtained the birth cert of james r seers which shows his mother as being elizabeth huckles and his father as richard seers.So why revert back to the seers surname ? Sorry if this all sounds very confused but I do find it extremely frustrating and really would appreciate some help in trying to unravel it all.Kingston and new malden was the family area for generations.Thanks Sue

I will have to break your reply up a bit as it is difficult to see where its going in one long stream,sorry.

Hi there many thanks for your help.
There is confusion over the surnames of petty and seers.
Richards father thomas married rachel seers in 1858.
she had 3 children, john ,eliza and richard.
in1861 census richard was still seers but by 1871 both richard and john were known as petty.so thomas was their stepfather.
I cannot understand therefore why james ellen and lily were registered in their stepmothers name of seers as thomas and rachel were now married.
my grandfather was always known as james r petty.
I have obtained the birth cert of james r seers which shows his mother as being elizabeth huckles and his father as richard seers.
So why revert back to the seers surname ?
Sorry if this all sounds very confused but I do find it extremely frustrating and really would appreciate some help in trying to unravel it all
.Kingston and new malden was the family area for generations.
Thanks Sue

I will have to give this some thought and get back to you.
viv

1861 England Census
about Richard Seers
Name: Richard Seers
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Petty
Mother's Name: Rachael
Gender: Male
Where born: Kingston, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Kingston
Ecclesiastical parish: Norbiton St Peter
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Thomas Petty 44
Rachael Petty 28
John Seers 9
Eliza Seers 7
Richard Seers 5
Ann Petty 3


So Richard was actually Rachels Seers child and not Thomas Pettys,so why shouldnt he use the name Seers(his birth name) on official documents and Petty for the ease of everyday living?

So were Eliza,John and Richard Rachaels children by another man or were they Thomas,s and he didnt marry her until 1858?

Racheal would have been a spinster on the marriage cert I assume going on the 51/41 census.


1851 England Census
about Rachiel Seers
Name: Rachiel Seers
[Rachiel Page]
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Female
Where born: Kingston, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Kingston Upon Thames
Ecclesiastical parish: Norbiton
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England


Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Wimbledon
ED, institution, or vessel: 1m
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 88
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Page 41
Rachiel Seers 19
John Seers 17
Richard Seers 10

*********************************************

In the workhouse with little sister Louisa ,who is not on 1851 with them.

1841 England Census
about Rachael Siers
Name: Rachael Siers
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Gender: Female
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: Kingston Upon Thames
Hundred: Kingston (First Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:Kingston union workhouse.

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston

Mother Eliza ,before remarriage and baby brother Richard,cant see brother John though in 1841.
If indeed she did remarry in law as that marriage seems to be elusive also
1841
Name: Richard Seers
Age: 11 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: Kingston Upon Thames
Hundred: Kingston (First Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Seers 30
Richard Seers 11 Mo
George Fearnley 40

Thanks for your help,what a conundrum ! Rachel Seers was a spinster on her marriage to thomas petty in 1858.he was a widower.so who did sire the seers children ? Sue

Thanks for your help,what a conundrum ! Rachel Seers was a spinster on her marriage to thomas petty in 1858.he was a widower.so who did sire the seers children ? Sue

The only way to find that out is to buy one of the birth certs.
If there is a father listed on it of course.
viv

nudge