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Thanks Sylvia, it could be the right John, if Mary died and he remarried Beatrix.

I've been looking for a marriage for John to Beatrix but no luck yet. I am at work at present so will pick this up again this evening.

Many thanks

Selena

This is probably the marriage of John Bateman and Mary, the parents of the last two baptisms

JOHN BATEMAN Pedigree
Male Family

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: MARY ANN PINNO Family
Marriage: 01 MAR 1802 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London, England

---------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

-----------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M040801 1785 - 1789 0396254 Film 6905089 Film
M040801 1789 - 1793 0396255 Film NONE
M040801 1793 - 1797 0296256 Film NONE
M040801 1797 - 1799 0296257 Film NONE
M040801 1799 - 1803 0396258 Film NONE
M040801 1803 - 1808 0396259 Film NONE




sylvia

The mystery may deepen


from the I G I


I found the William John baptism, then clicked on the Batch number, got the next box, entered Bateman as family name, clicked search ......... and got a whole pile of Bateman births at St John Horsleydown. Seems to have been several families of Batemans living in that parish

However, these two both had John Bateman as father, but the mother was Mary

JOHN MOLLAI BATEMAN Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 22 JUL 1807

Christening: AUG 1807 Saint John Horseleydowns, Bermondsey, London, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JOHN BATEMAN Family
Mother: MARY

---------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

-----------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
P015521 1803 - 1853 0254540-0254544 Film 0821146 Film
P015521 1803 - 1853 0254540-0254544 Film NONE



HENRY BATEMAN Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 08 SEP 1804

Christening: 05 OCT 1804 Saint John Horseleydowns, Bermondsey, London, England

Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JOHN BATEMAN Family
Mother: MARY

---------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

----------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
P015521 1803 - 1853 0254540-0254544 Film 0821146 Film
P015521 1803 - 1853 0254540-0254544 Film NONE





sylvia

Hello I am just wondering if anyone could help by going sideways.

Could anyone find any other children to John and Beatrix that could then be traced on the 1841, they could be neighbours to James and Jane. Or maybe someone has them on their tree that I could follow up.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks Chris, I will have a look at that baptism.

There hardly any Baleman births on FreeBMD, certainly none in London. So I would accept it should have been Bateman. I had his grandson mistranscribed as Baleman instead of Bateman on the 1881 (took four years to find that).

Just for info he is at Ropemaker Fields, Liimehouse, Tower Hamlets on the 1841. He was a tinsman and brazier on his daughter's birth certificate (Ann) in 1847. As I said dead by 1851.

Thanks Chris, I will go over to familysearch and have a look at that baptism.

Thanks for the help

Hope you have a nice evening out. If anyone has any other ideas on what I can do to confirm that William John James is mine I would be very grateful.

when I come back, I'll see if I can trace his parents to see what other refs say ...... unless someone else has doen it in the emantime.



Meanwhile ....... I think that is probably him!


How many William John James Ba*eman could there be???





sylvia

ahhh

so Robert Root was a "professional witness"



that's what we found for one of my ancestors


b*****y nuisance!



sylvia

Sylvia, I am sorely tempted that Baleman could be him. His son was mistranscribed Bacon, in the same parish.

Name: William James Bacon
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 24 May 1835
Father's Name: James William John Bacon
Mother's Name: Jane Louisa Bacon
Parish: Saint John Horselydown
Borough: Southwark
County: Middlesex

Any thoughts, can I claim him on this alone? Not sure what else to think of to do at this stage

Thanks for the contined help.

Selena

I have to go out now ..... I'll look back later to see what you think!



sylvia

Thanks Sylvia, yes that's his marriage. I have a copy of the original image but Robert Root witnessed many marriage at that church, so no known connection to him.

Do you think this could be him




London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about William John James Baleman
Name: William John James Baleman
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 7 Sep 1814
Father's Name: John Baleman
Mother's Name: Beatrix Baleman
Parish: Saint John Horselydown
Borough: Southwark
County: Middlesex


Image could read Baleman or Bateman

Address: Tooly Street

Father a Mariner


Born 15 Febraury 1813



sylvia

Hello, thanks for the replies.

I had a look back at my info, for the 1841 it says born Middlesex. I think Tower Hamlets and Stepney came under Middlesex then although now under London.

I was surprised to see his age as 28 on the census as I expected 25 or 30. I have his wife's baptism (1810), she is down as 30 on census. Maybe the ennumerator didn't follow his instructions to the letter that day!

James had his last child in 1847 in Bermondsey. I haven't established a death yet for him, too many possibilities.

On the few records I have found, his marriage, and his children's baptisms, he is consistently James William John. There are some possibles on familysearch but just with plain James Bateman so I don't know which if any are him.,

I was wondering if anyone could find him on the new LMA records that are on Ancestry.

Thanks again,

This is his marriage I presume


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about James William John Bateman
Name: James William John Bateman
Spouse Name: Jane Louisa Johnson
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Aug 1834
Parish: Christ Church, Spitalfields
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets



Witnesses:- Richard Johnson and Robert Root



I was hoping to get a lead on his father!!




sylvia

Ages on the 1841 for anyone over the age of 15 are rounded down to the nearest 5




....... usually!


A few enumerators seem not to have followed the rules.


But it means that a birth year shown on the 1841 can be upto 4 years out ......... ie the person appears to be younger than he really was





sylvia

Have you checked some years either side of 1812? Ages on the 1841 census are rounded up or down (can never remember which) to the nearest 5 years.

Does the 1841 have him as being born in the county ?

Sam x

I am looking for James William John Bateman born c1812? possibly in Tower Hamlets, London (was Middlesex).

He married in 1834 in Stepney. He is in Tower Hamlets on the 1841 age 28. He dies before 1851. Unfortunately his father is not give on his marriage record.

He does not appear to be on familysearch. Any help is much appreciated.