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Hi Janey,
Just a follow up message after my E- Mail to you.

Thank's for all your hard work !
You have been very helpful !

Kind regards
Marion

I wondered too, so I tried searching for Steel-s born in Cheswick, with no county name, to see whether there were any rellies kicking around the censuses. Only came up with another James Steel 1811, coal miner, living in Bishopwearmouth, in the 1861, and a George Steel born in Kirknewton 1802 living in Cheswick in 1851.

It's interesting to note that James Snr's pob=Durham, Northumberland is sort of accurate.

Cheswick is midway between Scremerston and Haggerston, abt 9 km SSE of Berwick.
Before the 1830s, the area around Berwick (incl Cheswick) was in a detached bit of Co Durham, (aka Islandshire). In the 1830s this was reassigned to Northumberland.

I've wondered abt this as I've got a mess of rellies that were in a similar situation, except they were born in a detached bit of Banffshire that got reassigned to Aberdeenshire. (I put it down as Banffshire).
I reckoned if folk go around saying born in Middlesex, then it seems like one takes the name at the time of birth.

And we have James in 1851 - with family:

Name: James Steel
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Relation: Visitor
Where born: Cheswick, Northumberland, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
>> Occupation: Mariner

Civil parish: Newbottle
County/Island: Durham
Registration district: Houghton Le Spring

William Steel 42
Mary Ann Steel 31
Thomas Steel 10
William Greeves 73
James Steel 39


Howzat??

Look what I found.


This is the household in 1851:

Ann Steel 38
Wm Steel 13
James Steel 6
Mary A Steel 4
Thos Steel 11w


This is the household in 1861:

Ann Steel 45 - widow, laundress
William Steel 24
James Steel 17 - errand boy
Thomas Steel 11
John Steel 8
Henry Steel 4


So I went looking for Thomas in 1871, and found:

Mary Ann Chilton 52
George Edward Chilton 3 months
Thomas Steel 20
John Steel 18
Charles Steel 14 (Henry by another name, I think)
Mary Ann Smith 57


But on the actual census page, this is what the household (it's all one) looks like:


240 Oxford St, Mile End Old Town

James Steel, head, married, 61, MARINER
- the "born in" says Durham, with Northumberland crammed in, in front of it
Ann Steel, wife, married, 57, born Horton, Buckinghamshire

Mary Ann Chilton, wife, married, 52, born Middlesex, Stepney
George Edward Chilton, grandson, 3 months, born Middlesex, Stepney

Thomas Steel, son, unmarried, 20, labourer
John Steel, son, unmarried, 18, tobacconist
Charles Steel, son, unmarried, 14, general servant

Also in the household:
Mary Ann Smith (no relation stated), widow, 37, nurse, born Buckinghamshire


I do believe we've got it.

I was going to say: don't be so quick to take what I was proposing as gospel!

But I think now you can. ;)


I wonder whether Mary Ann Chilton's age isn't misstated. I would suspect she is Mary Ann Steel, daughter of James and Ann, and the child is her son, grandson of the Steel parents.

Yuppers, I think:

Marriages Mar 1871
> Chilton George Edward Mile End 1c 777
Cline Joseph Mile End 1c 777
SHEARMAN Elizabeth Griffin Mile End 1c 777
> Steel Mary Ann Mile End 1c 777


Yee haw!

Hi Janey,
I have gone through my records again and found on James and Annie's marriage certificate in 1867 that James fathers Occupation is 'Mariner', so that could answer the question as to where his father is in the 1851 census.
I could look for James senior's death but I dont think it would help with junior's birth, it is looking like it was just not registered, especialy as there is no trace of the birth of Thomas either.

No I did not have the early censuses for James Junior only after his marriage to Annie because I have been following their daughter Alice's life, but wanted to include her parents BMD's in my records.
I will now include all your hard work also in my album which I hope others will find interesting. ( Nothing wasted )

Thank you for all yor help !
Kind regards
Marion

If I have the right family, in 1851 they are:

Ann Steel 38
Wm Steel 13
James Steel 6
Mary A Steel 4
Thos Steel 11w


There's no registration for that Thomas that I can see, either.

The date would be out, but it's conceivable that this is Mary Ann:

Births Sep 1845
STEEL Mary Ann Stepney 2 513

It could be worth the 7 pounds to see whether her mother is Ann, and whether a father is named!

The Mary A Steel in the 1851 census, parents Thomas and Catherine, is this one:

Births Dec 1845
STEEL Mary Ann Westminster 1 417

so that leaves the other one unaccounted for, unless she died. (There was another Mary Ann, born and died DecQ 1845 in London reg dist., and there are a couple of other deaths who could be the Mary Ann born in Stepney, but without ages on the records we can't tell.)

Ah, a father with the same name as himself -- not infrequently the sign of a man who didn't know who his father was!

I'm tending to the idea that James's mother was never married, and Steel was her name. After all, the one I'm looking at there kept having kids, but doesn't have a partner in any census. It's possible James was registered under his father's surname, but at that time, it's also possible his birth just wasn't registered.


When you say you have the censuses you need, did you mean that you already had all the pre-1881 censuses, and knew his mother's name, etc., and I didn't have to spend all that time finding them?

Thank you for your post's JaneyCanuck and Selena.
Yes I do have the marriage certificate, James married Ann/Annie and his father was also named James.
I do have the censuses I need just having trouble finding his birth details to send for the certificate.
Thank you both for your help

Kind regards
Marion

This is the James born in 1850, whom Marion mentioned in her OP, in 1851:


Name: James C Steel
Age: 8 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John T
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Where born: St Geo, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George in The East

John T Steel 39
Elizabeth Steel 25
John T Steel 5
Richard H Steel 2
James C Steel 8 Mo


James's marriage certificate is needed, to see what it says for father's name.


Marriages Jun 1867 ?
> Banks Annie Mile End 1c 1047
DICKS Elizabeth Verrent Mile End 1c 1047 GARWOOD Stephen Mile End 1c 1047
> Steel James Mile End 1c 1047

The household in 1851:

Ann Steel 38
Wm Steel 13
James Steel 6
Mary A Steel 4
Thos Steel 11w


Ann is a tailor, no marital status is entered.

In 1851, Ann's place of birth is Berkshire. In 1861, it is Horton, Buckinghamshire. All the children in 1851 are born Stepney.


In 1841, Ancestry cleverly has a 3-yr-old William Steel alone in his own household in St Marylebone.

He is actually in this household:

James Gillmore 40
Laura Gillmore 40
Rose Gillmore 16

whom Ancestry has given all their own households, as well.

So I'm thinking this is Ann in 1841:

Name: Ann Steel
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
(born out of county)

Civil parish: Stepney
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town Lower

Again, Ancestry has hived her off from:

Charles Steel 4

who is squashed into the line and whose birthplace isn't noted.

This might be him

Births Sep 1850
Steel James Charles St Geo East 2 123

This looks like closest to him in 1861:

Name: James Steel
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: St Georges East, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Stepney

Ann Steel 45 - widow, laundress
William Steel 24
James Steel 17 - errand boy
Thomas Steel 11
John Steel 8
Henry Steel 4
Charles Hester 23 - lodger


1844-45ish -- not all births were registered.

1901 at Ancestry says:


Name: James Steel
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie
Where born: St Georges, London, England


I checked the image and it does say "St Georges".

Are you reading another site where someone has assumed too much in the transcription?

Oops! that was 1871; 1881:

Name: James Steel
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie
Where born: St Georges, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Cutter (Artiz)

Civil parish: Bow

James Steel 36
Annie Steel 37
James C. Steel 12
Sarah A. Steel 6
George E. Steel 4
Alfred J. Steel 2
Alice Steel

Is this him in 1881?

Name: James Steel
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Lodger
Spouse's Name: Annie
Where born: St George in The East, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Mile End Old Town

John Duke 37
Ann Duke 38
John Willm Duke 15
James Henry Duke 13
Laura Henry Duke 11
Alice Ann Duke 7
Sarah Jane Duke 3
James Steel 26
Annie Steel 27
James C Steel 2
Francis S Steel 2 months


Have you found his marriage?

James Steel was born abt. 1845 St. Georges, Middlesex according to the 1881 and 1901 censuses and I would like to send for his birth certificate but the only birth I have been able to find around this time and area is in 1850.

Would be grateful for any other suggestions

( Thank you for your correction Janey as you can see I have updated my request )

Kind regards
Marion