Find Ancestors

From the new thread, for the info of anyone following this one:

I appealed for information on Herbert Hunt because on the marriage certificate Annie Elizabeth Vowles (the name the home had given me and the name on Winifred Delmattie's birth certificate )had changed to just Elizabeth Vowles and her age (39) did not correspond with the Annie Elizabeth Vowles born Priston 1877. Also, Annie's father was named as Thomas on the marriage certificate and Annie from Priston's father was Albert Vowles. I therefore thought it would be an idea to try to find anyone who might know the hunt family who could give me some information to confirm or refute that the Annie Elizabeth Vowles I assumed was Winifred's mother was correct. The home only gave me her name and her age (25) at the time of my gran's birth (1903) and I could fine only one Annie Elizabeth Vowles born at that time.


Strikes me this would have been useful here too ...

I'm confused, Carina!

I just got your PM, which I'll copy here because it doesn't seem too personal:


Hi Janey
Thanks so much for answering my plea for help. Yes the child named Winifred Delmattie and then renamed Clara Vallance by the thomas conram foundation was my grandmother. Her mother was Annie Elizabeth Vowles. On Annie and Herbert's 1913 marriage certificate she gives her age as 39 and calls herself Elizabeth Vowles. Herbert Hunt gives his age as 29. I believe they had no children of their own.

Winifred Delmattie's father was not named on her birth certificate but her mother informed the home of the child's father being Reigo Delmattie. I can find no trace of him although he was supposed to have been in london for a number of years. I need to try to find, through Herbert's relatives, some more information on Annie Elizabeth's background, as although I think I have traced her I can't be absolutely certain if I've got the right person. Herbert hunt knew of Winifred's existance and supported his wife's repeated applications for Winifred's return.

thank you so much for showing an interest and I am very grateful for your advise and assistance
Regards Carina


This is the only thread I can find with the surname Delmattie in it, and I'm not here!

Oh ... I remember ... Annie Elizabeth Vowles ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1168542

Probably some of the info in this thread would have helped there ... so I'm going to add what you sent me to that one.

Thankyou so much for helping. It certainly proves the old saying right...Two (or three or four) minds are better than one! It's absolutely fantastic to find Annie in 1901. How did you manage it? Thanks also for the help concerning Reigo Delmattie. If anything it makes the likelihood of Reigo being called Mauro more likely if the name should have been Remigio, at least there is an M in it! Like i said it could be like our Edward being Teddy for example? It was very interesting to learn the 'Del' is a bit like our Mac or O'. I have a friend whose surname is O'conner but she sometimes omits the O'. I now think my ggrandmother did not invent the name but repeated the name to the registrar as best she could. He certainly gave her a ring(which I'm hoping she may have left as a keepsake in the foundling hospital when she handed the baby over) and had disappeared from his lodgings by the time the baby had been born. I am aware that Mauro Menti may be completely the wrong contender, but he is in the right place at the right time with the right profession. He also marries just after Winifred Delmattie is born which makes me think this was the reason he was unable to fulfil his commitments. now as for Alice Griffins, I have seen this surname on a family tree linked to the Vowles. I think Annie E Vowles grandmother Martha Silcox had a neice who married a Griffins..I need to check this out, but it could explain why she went to London. Thanks again everyone...it really, really helps to hear ideas and also to take on board advise on not becoming too excited! I still can't believe I've learnt so much so quickly from people kind enough to give up their time to help. I'm very touched. Carina x

Here is the 1881 census with Annie Elizabeth listed as Anne E (without the letter I in her first christian name). I have sent a correction to Ancestry to list the correct spelling as registered at birth to help future researchers. Her parents are Albert and Ann.

Small correction to a previous message from Linda. She kindly provided you the 1891 census twice with Annie aged 13 but the first time she quoted in her message that it was the 1881. It confused me at first, which isn't difficult :o) as I couldn't work out why Annie would be aged 13 in 1881.

Regards

Name: Albert Vowles
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Priston, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Priston
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Agricultural Laborer

Registration district: Keynsham
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Albert Vowles 35
Ann Vowles 27
Maude Vowles 5
Agness M. Vowles 4
Anne E. Vowles 3
Mabel R. Vowles 1

Meant to add that Alice Griffiths is listed as a Hospital Nurse in the 1901 census.

I also note that the final entry in the household in the 1901 is Alice Griffiths (aged 28).

Perhaps this is a coincidence but it states in the census that she is a visitor (rather than a servant) and she was born in Brixton, London.

Pure speculation here but there 'may' be some tenuous link to the 'Mrs Griffiths' that you state Annie was employed by in 1901.

Carina (and Linda)

Here is Annie in the 1901. I've used both Find My Past and Ancestry to cross check the census as Ancestry has been incorrectly transcribed as follows, as indicated with asterix and in UPPER CASE. She is living with the Willis-Fleming family in Clifton, Bristol (posh part of town!!!) as a cook (domestic). The head of Willis-Fleming family is from Paddington, London and his wife is from Switzerland. More interesting stuff...

If you don't have access to Find My Past or Ancestry, and want copies of the census, then private message me with your e-mail address.

Taking nothing away from the hard work that Linda has put in, I would politely warn against jumping to conclusions as the Menti fellow could quite possibly be a 100% honest gentleman with no connections whatsover with Annie.

Name: Annie Vowles
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Mother *** SHOULD READ SERVANT
Gender: Female
Where born: Gravesend, Kent, England *** SHOULD READ PRISTON

Civil parish: Bristol
Ecclesiastical parish: Clifton All Saints
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bristol
Sub-registration district: Clifton
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 146
Household Members: Name Age
Cecil Willis Fleming 34
Hannah Willis Fleming 33
Donald Willis Fleming 9
Edward Willis Fleming 8
Robert Fleming 4
Caroline Fleming 73
Maude Scott 29
Annie Vowles 23
Florence Hancox 21
Alice Griffiths 28

Hi Carina

I hope I dont confuse you to much but here is a reply from an Italian site that I am a member of.

The surname is most likely MATTEIS based upon the base surname Mattei appearing inthe Italian surname dictionary and mattie is a variant of that base surname. The De or Del means "Of or of the". The first name could possibly be REMIGIO derived from Saint Remigius (LATIN).

Regards Lynne

Hi Carina

I have been doing a little research for you but I cannot find the surname Delmattie past or preasent in Italy I think it has been changed or your ggrandmother invented the name. There are quite a few Menti s still living in Italy, most of them in the Vento Region.

As for Reigo I cant find that name either here is a link to the Italian first name site.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/8783/givename.html#M

I will let you know if I find out anymore.

Lynne

Hi Linda
Thanks again! Yes, I think its an incredible coincidence. He is the only likely contender at this address, and the address is definitely correct. I think he altered his name as he was probably engaged and just wanted a bit of fun. He was definitely a waiter and I've checked old London maps and all the places mentioned, Air Street, off Regent Street, Russell Square, Tottenham Road, Euston road are incredibly close together (So, rather sadly, is the foundling hospital) There is definitely no trace of Reigo Delmattie anywhere. I know that Annie E Vowles was employed in domestic service by Mrs Grittiths of 41, Great Russle Street, Russell Square in 1902. Where she is in 1901 is a mystery. Her sisters are all in service but have remained close to home, two working for the same family. I wonder if there is a chance she had married before she left for London and is registered under a married name. Perhaps she went to London to escape an unhappy marriage? I think I've lots of research to keep me busy! Your help is very much appreciated., Carina x

and here is annie on the 1891, you're right, she's not coming up too easily on the 1901 but that again could be a transcribers error, in the spelling of her name:

Name: Annie Elizabeth Vowles
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Albert
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Priston, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Priston
Town: Priston
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Keynsham
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Albert Vowles 47
Ann Vowles 37
Annie Elizabeth Vowles 13
Mabel Vowles 11
Earnest E Vowles 9
Martha S Vowles 2

I still think mario is your man, given that annie must have been there at some stage she had to have had the address right, and if he was married he probably did lead her astray as to his name. I don't think annie invented the name, but was led astray. If he knew he was married (maybe his wife/fiance was still in Italy) he's not going to be completely honest is he? :)))) regards Linda :)

Hi my great grandmother Annie E Vowles born 1877 Priston, somerset gave Reigo Delmattie as the name of the father of her illigitmate baby Winifred Delmattie born 2nd November 1903 to the thomas conram hospital for foundlings in london. She gave his address as 20, Air Street, Regent street and he had supposedly been living there for a few years. I can find no trace of Reigo Delmattie and have wondered if a) he gave a fasle name to my great gran b) she relayed the name to the best of her ability or lied. I wonder if Reigos are sometimes called Mauro? Look at our Edwards becoming Ted for example. Perhaps somebody with Italian knowledge could let me know. Also the Del of Delmattie could be like the Irish O' in O' conner for example? x

I'm not convinced Maria Menti is Reigo Delmattie. Even allowing for spelling errors they are not similar.

Could the name be something like Luigi Delamotte? I assume you're trying to read old handwriting.

Rose

Hi Carina, so glad to be of help. If you go to findmypast youcan just do a place search in the census, which I only learnt this week. Shall have a quick look at the 1901 and see if we can't find annie. Regards Linda :) PS I'm in oz so hence the time delay!!

Well it looks like this girl netted him unlike my great grandmother! His first child is born 1904 and he married in 1903 so maybe baby was on the way! This is so exciting and very addictive. thanks so much, Carina x

PM'ing you with some info

Looks like he's still about in 1911;

HOUSEHOLD MENTI MAURO M 1870 41 St Pancras London
(born Italy)


HOUSEHOLD MENTI CARLO M 1904 7 St Pancras London
HOUSEHOLD MENTI IRENE F 1910 1 St Pancras London
HOUSEHOLD MENTI MARGHRIETA F 1872 39 St Pancras London

Hi
How can i thank you for all your efforts? As I've said before I'm new to all this and didn't even know you could research addresses. I feel this is our man and had a hunch his name was not quite right. The details of his address come from records from the Thomas conram home and I've been in touch to see if they can tell me anything else. I think he may have been married in 1901 and maybe married again in 1903. At least i have a name I can research as 'Reigo Delmattie' was a dead end. It seems poor Annie E Vowles coming from a tiny village in somerset was very unworldy upon arrivivng in London and soon fell victim to Italian charms! Not much changes in this world! thank you once again, you are obviously a very kind person. Keep in touch
Kind regars, Carina x

although he may have considered being engaged as being married, because in 1903:

Marriages Jun 1903 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beretta Margherita Strand 1b 1212
Edwards Ellen Strand 1b 1212
Menti Mauro Strand 1b 1212
Reardon John Strand 1b 1212


Oh what a web!! Regards Linda :)

Got him!!! 1901 census has a 20 air st:

158 OSBORNE, George Head Married M 36 1865 Wine Merchants Assist
Pimlico
London VIEW
158 OSBORNE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 37 1864
Barnsbury
London VIEW
158 OSBORNE, George Son Single M 8 1893
St James's
London VIEW
158 BLAN, George Boarder Single M 47 1854 Waiter Restaurant
Germany VIEW
158 MENTI, Mario Boarder Married M 31 1870 Waiter Restaurant
Italy VIEW
158 LANIEL Boarder Single M 34 1867 Pastry Cook
France VIEW
158 ROSE, John Boarder Single M 32 1869 Chiropodist
Italian VIEW
158 VOLOGUSSA, Henri Boarder Single M 24 1877 Restaurant Waiter
St Georges
London VIEW
158 WILCOX, Thomas W Boarder Single M 34 1867 Hosier's Clerk
St Georges
London VIEW
158 ADAM, Robert Boarder Married M 42 1859 House Decorator
Scotland VIEW
158 SADLER, John Boarder Single M 32 1869 Waiter Restaurant
St James's
London
so I reckon mario menti is your ( married) man!!

Regards LInda :))))