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Trying to sort out marriage/birth conundrum. Caroline Burvill born c1860 Ramsgate Kent married William Henry Johns born Milford Pembrokeshire. Per 1911 census they lived in Sheerness Kent & had been married 30 years.His age shown as 54 & hers 50. I cannot trace a marriage cert for them, only one for Caroline Burvill & Thomas Drummond 1881, correct age for Caroline & place of Birth, but on Esther Johns birth cert 1891 Sheerness Kent her mother is listed as Caroline Johns formerly Burvill with no mention of Drummond. I have however traced a marriage cert for a William Henry Johns to Caroline Johns, Oct/nov/dec 1880 in Redruth Cornwall 5c 357. Their eldest daughter Elizabeth was born c1882 in Ramsgate Kent & I cannot trace her birth cert either, but have traced an Elizabeth Drummond 1882 Thanet 2a 921. If any one can trace anything else or has any suggestions other than sending for the Redruth marriage cert & the Thanet birth cert I would be extremely grateful as I seem to be going round in circles

Slightly confused over the relevance of the marriage in Cornwall? Between two Johns?

Name: Caroline Burvill
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Thanet
County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 671 (

This is the marriage ref - with one missing - you found?

Marriages Mar 1881 (>99%)
BURVILL Caroline Thanet 2a 1075 Scan available - click to view
DRUMMOND Thomas Thanet 2a 1075 Scan available - click to view
SCOATES Francis James Thanet 2a 1075


1901 for ref
Name: Caroline Johns
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William H
Gender: Female
Where born: Ramsgate, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Sheerness
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
Town: Sheerness
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address:




Registration district: Sheppey
Sub-registration district: Minster
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 61
Household Members:
Name Age
William H Johns 45
Caroline Johns 40
Elizabeth Johns 19
James Johns 19

The fact that they stated on 1911 census that they were married does not prove that the ceremony actually took place.

Some census data........for info

Name: Elizabeth Johns
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William H
Mother's Name: Caroline
Gender: Female
Where born: Ramsgate, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Sheerness
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
Town: Sheerness
County/Island: Kent
Country: England



Registration district: Sheppey
Sub-registration district: Minster
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 61
Household Members: Name Age
William H Johns 45 b. Milford
Caroline Johns 40 b. Ramsgate
Elizabeth Johns 19
James Johns 19 b. Ramsgate

Hmm, is this the right girl - shown born Wales this time? William shown as a shipwright born Pembrokeshire.

1881

Name: Caroline Johns
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Pembrokeshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Chatham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: 35 Hills St
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Rochester
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
William Johns 21
Caroline Johns 20


NO ignore, that, we have two WH Johns on the go with Carolines - what a coincidence.


Name Age
William H Johns 41
Caroline Johns 40
Grace M Johns 19
Evelyn D Johns 16
Florence Johns 13

Thank you Heather Posi, Yes that was the Marriage cert I found & I have purchased it & the marriage was between Caroline & Thomas Drummond. Carolines father is shown as Richard Burvill & I have found an entry on the 1871 census for his family in Ramsgate but the girls listed are Kate, age 11, and Carry age 8.
Ricochet, Thanks also re suggestion that William & Caroline may not have been married. Just trying to search every avenue.

Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brett Elizabeth Ann Medway 2a 864
COSTEN Charles Medway 2a 864
John William Hugh Medway 2a 864
Lewis Caroline Elizabeth Medway 2a 864

Richard, I think that marriage is the other couple I found too. See 1881 above

OK

So? 1871? Dad shown as a labourer born Sandwich

Name: Carry Burvill
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Ramsgate, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Ramsgate
Town: Ramsgate
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration district: Thanet
Sub-registration district: Ramsgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 60
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Burvill 45
Elizabeth Burvill 44
Sarah A Burvill 18
Mary A Burvill 15
Kate Burvill 11
Carry Burvill 8

Caroline Burvill
Christening: 21 DEC 1860 St George'S Chrch, Ramsgate, Kent, England

Father: Richard Burvill
Mother: Elizabeth Burvill


'Carry' on the 1871 would be Caroline......

This is Kate

1. Kate Burville - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 24 FEB 1858 St George'S Chrch, Ramsgate, Kent, England



It's looking increasingly likely that she married Drummond, produced Elizabeth....then set up home with Johns

Do you know who fathered James?

"Carry" shown as 8 on the 1871 - I bet dad gave their ages :)

1881 with Tom, hawking veg

Name: Caroline Drummond
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Gender: Female
Where born: Ramsgate, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Ramsgate
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: 97 King St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:


Occupation: Hawker Of Vegetables

Registration district: Thanet
Sub-registration district: Ramsgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Drummond 23
Caroline Drummond 20

Yes, I agree, Heather...the marriage is for the 'other' couple.

Births Jun 1882
Drummond Elizabeth Thanet 2a 921

Drummond, British Isles
Father: Thomas , Mother: Caroline
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: I003544

1. Elizabeth Drummond - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 DEC 1882 Ramsgate, Kent, England

Sorry for delay in response, minor emergency here! Thank you so much for all your hard work, you have at least confirmed all that I had found. I haven't found James birth cert yet to check if their is a father shown but will continue with my investigation perhaps he was a Drummond also! I was hoping to see on Esters Birth cert Caroline Johns, late Drummond formerly Burvill, but its never as easy as that is it. Perhaps she didnt tell William she was already married! The mystery continues, but again Thank you both for your time.

I dont think theres a mystery really now. She likely left Tom and shacked up with Bill. You dont have to be married to have children and give your name as the same as the fathers.

I take it you have looked for a death for Tom? Have you looked for a marriage decades after the children were born? Ive had that one - where they finally marry when previous spouses have died.

I would think that William was fully aware that she was married..........otherwise she could have got married to him.............

I think the fact she came with a kid(s) may have also made him question her previous life :)