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Good luck!

Well, I guess I'll leave you with that.

My sympathies for your family situation; I have very ill family members at the moment too.

If you do order certificates / learn any more, you can post the info here.

If I have the right Daisy Wood, this is her parents' household in Gravesend in 1881:


Edmund James Wood 26 - Sawyer
Eliza Jane Wood 23
> Rose Emily Mary Wood 14 days
Rose Harriett Freeman 19 - visitor
Henry Wood 22 - lodgers (presumably brother & family)
Elizabeth Wood 23
Henry Wood


However:

Deaths Sep 1881
WOOD Rose Emily M age 0 Gravesend 2a 237


So that Daisy Wood did not have a sister Emily.

Okay, so I just "found" all the info you already had.


At this point you probably need to get some certificates before you can proceed. The thing is to find Frederick William Butcher in the 1891/1901 censuses -- and there are just too many Frederick Butchers born around then to know which one is him.

Because it's looking like Emma/Emily must have been his sister, since she doesn't seem to have been Daisy Wood's, assuming I have the right Daisy. This is her household in 1891 in Gravesend:

Edmund Wood 46
Eliza Wood 48
Daisy Wood 16
Mary Foreman 77
Janet Calder 11


You need to get the Daisy Wood + Frederick Butcher marriage certificate, so you know their fathers' names.

Or - you can go over the 1911 census and buy credits, and view the original page to see what Frederick William Butcher's place of birth was, and that could find him in the 1891/1901 census.

These look like the options:

Births Dec 1882
Butcher Frederick William Hoo 2a 528

Births Dec 1883
BUTCHER Frederick William E Ashford 2a 767
BUTCHER Frederick William E Depwade 4b 225


The first one is the one that fits best timewise and placewise -- he would have been 28 at the time of the 1911 census.


And for Daisy Wood:

Births Dec 1884
Wood Daisy Gravesend 2a 498


You see, I just can't find a Frederick Butcher living with any Gates in 1911, is the thing.


1911 census here:

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

1901 census


Name: Daisy Wood
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edmund
Mother's Name: Eliza
Where born: Gravesend, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Northfleet

Edmund Wood 46
Eliza Wood 48
Daisy Wood 16
Mary Foreman 77
Janet Calder 11


No Emma/Emily though.

First of all, I am sorry if the info is all over the place but I am giving you info as and when I get from two elderly people who are dying (my nan and her brother) and I am very close to both of them. Neither of them will see christmas. Frederick Stanley Butcher (my great grandfather) born 23rd Aug 1904 at Bromley, was brought up by his aunt and uncle Bert and Emily. We are not sure what Bert is short for. We have been told that they had money and owned off licenses. I have also been given an address of North Cross Road, East Dulwich, London. They were still alive during WW2 and went over to relatives that were in Canada. Frederick William Butcher born 1883 and Daisy Woods born 1884 are Frederick Stanley's parents. They got married Dec 1903 and one of the places they lived at was 25 Nelson Road Gravesend, Kent. When Daisy gave birth to Eddy M she became really ill and that is when Frederick went to stay with Bert and Emily. It was only meant to be temporary but ended up being permanent. They think that Bert and Emily didn't have any other children (or at least they didn't in 1906). They were also wealthy as they sent Frederick Stanley to a private school. Daisy Wood's parents were Edmund James Woods born c1855 and Eliza Jane Woods nee Foreman born c1855. One of the places they lived at was 3 Clifton Grove, Gravesend, Kent. Frederick William Butcher's father was called William Butcher. The family comes from Gravesend. This is not a goose chase.
Verity

Marriages Dec 1903
> Butcher Frederick William Gravesend 2a 1180
Ritchie Jessie Gravesend 2a 1180
> WOOD Daisy Gravesend 2a 1180
WOOD Samuel James Gravesend 2a 1180


Are we getting somewhere??

Alrighty. Frederick Stanley Butcher's birth was reg in 1904 in Bromley.


1911 census for Daisy Butcher


BUTCHER DAISY 1884 27 Bromley Kent
BUTCHER FREDERICK WILLIAM 1883 28 Bromley Kent
BUTCHER EDDY 1906 5 Bromley Kent
BUTCHER WINIFRED DAISY 1910 1 Bromley Kent


Is this them then?

They believe that she is either Emily's sister or Frederick William's sister.
Verity

Daisy Woods was their grandmother. They also sad that bert and emily were still alive during WW2 and that they went over to Canada to visit relatives of there. They told me that they looked after their father Frederick because Daisy was really ill from 1906 onwards when she gave birth to her 2nd son Eddy but he never went back to his parents.
Verity

Now, this Daisy Woods does have a much older sister Emily in 1891:


Name: Emily Woods
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Sarah
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Bermondsey

Sarah Woods 50 - widowed, tailoress
Emily Woods 24
Daisy Woods 4
Albert Harber 19
William Dilbert 39
James Oldridge 39


It's a little hard to read. The surname might actually be Wood.

This is probably the Daisy Woods in question (the other born 1884 was in Stockbridge):

Births Jun 1884
Woods Daisy Elizabeth S Lambeth 1d 410


However, if that DOB is not exact, there are others in the vicinity 1882-1883.

Can you say how they know about her and why they believe she is Emma/Emily's sister?


That Daisy Woods doesn't have a sister Em* in 1891:

Civil Parish: Camberwell
John Woods 35
Lizzie Woods 25
Daisy Woods 6
Lilly Woods 5
Harry Woods 3
Mabel Woods 1


or in 1901:

John Woods 46
Lizzie Woods 39
Henry Woods 13
Mabel Woods 11
Dora Woods 9
Jack Woods 7
George F Harris 46

Handwritten addition to the GRO page, completely illegible at FreeBMD, looked at Ancestry.

Marriages Dec 1902
Gates Bert Hambledon 2a 334a


The two brides on that page were Elizabeth Bates and Jemima Ross, so no.

So I tried a search at FreeBMD

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

for

marriages
surname GATES
spouse's surname WOODS
spouse's given name EM*
1890 to 1910

and there was no result. Also no useful result for GATES + WOODS 1890-1920.

A Herbert Edward Gates may have married an Alice Woods in 1910 in Portsmouth (only the certificate would say for sure), but that's the closest I see.


Hang on, we have a stray Bert here:

Marriages Dec 1902
Gates Bert Hambledon 2a 83*

... let me check what the page number actually is ...

Frederick Stanley Butcher was born 23rd Aug 1904. My nan (Frederick's daughter) has checked with her brother and he said that her name was Emily. They think that she is a sister of Daisy Woods born 1884. They both have asked me to research their family as they were not told anything as they grew up and both of them are now dying of cancer.
Verity.

Is one of these your gr-grf?


Births Dec 1903
BUTCHER Frederick Stanley Swindon 5a 48

Births Sep 1904
BUTCHER Frederick Stanley Bromley 2a 519


(I searched 1895-1906)


If you can find them in the 1911 census, you might be able to firm up the personal details of Bert and Emma/Emily. Knowing when and where Frederick was born could help with that.

I'm trying to find relatives of bert and emma/emily gates..I don't know what bert is short for. I do know that in 1906 they were living at north cross rd, east dulwich london. They had off licenses and quite a lot of money. They brought up their nephew Frederick Stanley Butcher (my great grandfather) from 1906.
Verity