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I have just received a birth certificate for Ellen Hone born Chesterfirld, Derby 1874 as I was not sure of her Mother's details and maiden name,.
Now I am even more confused as the Surname and maiden name of mother is ELIZA HONE late Rawlins, formerly Matthews living in Chapel Street, Whittington Mow, Derby.
I have trawled through to see if I can find a marriage for George Hone and Eliza Matthews or Eliza Rawlins. I cannot find anything with her in a marriage prior to George Hone in the name of Matthews or Rawlins.
I would very much appreciate if someone could find anything on this marriage or previous marriage if that is the case. I have all the children of the marriage to George Hone.
Thankyou for any help
Kind regards
Jackie

Just for reference, have you found the family on the 1881? I can't see them.

Possible but out of the area

Marriages Jun 1867
HOLLOWAY Thomas Greenwich 1d 983
MARLOW Hannah Greenwich 1d 983
MATTHEWS Eliza Sarah Greenwich 1d 983
RAWLINGS John Ralph Greenwich 1d 983

1881 for ref

Name: Ellen Homes
[Ellen Hone]
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Female
Where born: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 14 Fredrick St
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Homes 36 lambeth
Eliza Homes 32 rotherside surrey
Elizabeth Homes 11
Ellen Homes 7
Geo. Homes 5
Charles J. Homes 2
William H. Homes

richard

If Eliza was actually born Rotherhithe (not Rotherside?) then the Greenwich marriage is not too far away,

1871 for ref.

1871 England Census
about Elizabeth Hone
Name: Elizabeth Hone
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Geo
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 35
Household Members: Name Age
Geo Hone 27
Elizabeth Hone 25
Eliza Hone 3
Geo Hone 1

Christine

Hi Selina,

That sounds good, I have got a child that I couldn't place (Elizabeth c1870) which doesn't tie in with the other children, I have her as Hone but born in Rotherhithe. I THINK she married George Hone after 1971 so this could have been from the marriage to John Rawlings, Greenwich and Rotherhithe are both South East London, so it does sound right.
Thankyou so much for your help, very much appreciated
Kind regards
Jackie

Thankyou so much for all this information Richard, Somersetgirl and Selena, spot on with the children, just transcriber added to the surname somewhat and Rotherside instead of Rotherhithe, other than that it all seems to be the same family.
I really appreciate all your help
Best wishes
Jackie

Sorry Christine, didn't mean to leave you out, I thank all of you for your kindness and help.
Best Wishes
Jackie

This is in Rotherhithe district

Births Jun 1848
*****Matthews Eliza Sarah * 4 442

Elizabeth is age 3 years on the 1871 making this birth reg a possible?

Births Dec 1867
Rawlings Elizabeth Mary Greenwich 1d 697

Hi Selena,

Thankyou once again, I do not know where I have been looking haha!!, you seem to be coming up with all the things I wanted to find.

Is it possible that Eliza married George Hone as Rawlings and not her maiden name of Matthews?, I have looked on BMD and IGI etc, but cannot finr one for either, what would be your advice on this. I can't get a marriage cert for them because I cannot find the marriage, once again perhaps I am not seeing clearly.
Kind regards
Jackie

Hello Jackie, I have looked for a marriage to George under both Rawlings and Matthews but couldn't find anything.

I couldn't find a death for John Ralph Rawlings either in the right time frame! I am wondering if Eliza just separated from John Rawlings and never divorced, It was very difficult and expensive to get a divorce then.

Looking at John Ralph Rawlings

Births Sep 1846
Rawlings John Ralph Greenwich 5 245
JOHN RALPH RAWLINGS
Birth: 23 AUG 1846
Christening: 28 FEB 1847 St Alphage, Greenwich, Kent, England
Father: EDWARD JAMES RAWLINGS
Mother: EMMA

Marriages Jun 1867
RAWLINGS John Ralph Greenwich 1d 983

Just possible? death age slightly out.

Deaths Sep 1918
Rawlings John R 79 Hackney 1b 470

I'm just trying to find him on the 1881

It might be a good idea to try and get John Rawlings marriage certificate to Eliza.

1881 possible? Not sure how Hardwick fits in?

John RAWLINS Head M Male 36 Lambeth, Surrey, England Plumber
Sarah RAWLINS Wife M Female 34 Stafford, England Plumbers Wife
Martha HARDWICK Sister U Female 24 Greenwich, Kent, England Machinist
Charles BARBER Boarder U Male 34 Middlesboro ((Chelsea)), York, England Fireman Of Steam Vessel (Steam)
Amos J. DEACON Boarder U Male 24 Chelsea, Middlesex, England Police Constable
Robert A. INGRAM Boarder U Male 28 Aberdeen, Scotland Police Constable


Dwelling 2 Market St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341028
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0127 / 117
Page Number 20

Just a possible theory: I think John is living with Sarah and Martha Hardwick is Sarah's sister.

Sarah Hardwick
Christening: 17 MAY 1857 , Northampton, England
Father: Levi Hardwick
Mother: Sarah Hardwick

Births Jun 1846
HARDWICK Sarah Kings Norton 18 459

Births Dec 1856
Hardwick Martha Walsall 6b 456 (Staffordshire)

Martha Hardwick
Christening: 17 MAY 1857 , Northampton, England
Father: Levi Hardwick
Mother: Sarah Hardwick

The baptisms and birth places are different but this might be sorted out by looking at earlier or later censuses.

Just a theory though! An 1871 & 1891 census would be interesting.

Here you go Selena.

1861 England Census
about Martha Hardwick
Name: Martha Hardwick
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thos
Mother's Name: Lydia
Gender: Female
Where born: Greenwich, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Newington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: London
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England



Registration district: Newington
Sub registration district: St Peter Walworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 121
Household Members: Name Age
Thos Hardwick 39
Lydia Hardwick 44 born Staffordshire
Sarah Hardwick 1 Image shows14
Maria Hardwick 13
William Hardwick 10
Thomas Hardwick 9
Martha Hardwick 5
James Hardwick 3
Mary James 64

1871 England Census
about John Rawlings
Name: John Rawlings
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Lambeth St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England


Disability: View Image
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church First
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 182
Household Members: Name Age
John Rawlings 24 plumber
Sarah Rawlings 24 born Staffordshire
Maria Hardwick 23 sister in law Born Greenwich


1891 England Census
about John Rawlins
Name: John Rawlins
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Rawlins 40 plumber
Sarah Rawlins 44

Christine

Thanks Christine, thats a big help.

John is consistent with being a plumber. It would be interesting to see what his profession is on his marriage to Eliza.

John seems to be living with Sarah and her sister Martha Hardwick for at least 20 years and they had no children. Martha is down as sister in law to John on the 1871 and just sister on 1881 (so probably left on the in law bit).

Still no marriage of John Rawlings to Sarah Hardwick.
And no marriage of Eliza Matthews to George Hone.

At least John and Eliza didn't marry their new partners and become bigamists.

Selena

It's Maria Hardwick with them in 1871 another of Sarah's sisters.

I wonder if we are on the right track with John Rawlings?

Does seem likely as no marriage details can be found for Eliza to George Hone.

Christine

Wow! Christine and Selena, you have been working hard on my behalf, thankyou so much.
I now think that you are right and that Eliza and John did not divorce and she lived with George Hone and had the children.
George and Eliza did move up Whittington, Chesterfield and had 3 children there before returning to London, I thought they may have married there under her surname Rawlins, , but I am now more inclined to believe they did not marry.
Thankyou again for you kind help, I will be back online in the morning, had a busy day, and check on my thread.
Kind regards
Jackie