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thank you all I am going to leave this now and try another aproach. John

It's a problem isn't it?

Not helped by the fact that Mary Cooper is a very common name.

Sorry I haven't been able to help further.

Christine

christine the is a good match andI think it could be right but untill I can find mariage and birth cirt of Mary Ann I am stuck. I have been trying for weeks which is why I was asking for help . thanks again John

This could possbly be your Henry in 1881 as parents and eldest daughter were born in Devon.

Of course it's only a guess without the marriage cert.

1881 England Census
about Henry Down
Name: Henry Down
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Sparkbrook, Worcestershire, England

Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address: 311 Dudley Rd
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 13a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Down 42
Mary Down 41
Mary Down 18
Henry Down 12
George Down 11
Amelia Down 7
Nathaniel Down 2
James Down 22
Mary Down 24
John Down 3
Walton Down 1
Frederick Down

Christine

this is my wonder but I can not find a birth or a marraige cert for either Mary Ann Cooper or Victoria 9may be Cooper. John

I agree, John, a real mystery! It is possible that the wrong birthplace was entered for Henry on the 1901 census. I've certainly seen that done more than a few times. And the 2 daughters Ada and Victoria on the 1901 census were born in Leyton, Essex.
Could wifey have been Mary Ann Victoria or Victoria Mary Ann?

Yes you are right MargretManson, I actually used this family for my tree. till the 1911 census. then I got nans birth cert I found she was born in 1895 in the same house as census and that her Mother was Mary Ann. in 1891 Henry and Mary Ann living in Leyton; 1901 Harry and Victoria in Southwark; 1911 Harry and Mary Ann in leyton. all the wives were born in Bermondsey but Henry/Harry 1891and 1911 born in Birmingham in 1901 Exeter Devon. I still see this as a Mystery. John

Surely that has to be the family on the 1901 census with mother Victoria? It seems too much of a coincidence that the children are Ada 8, Victoria 5 and Eva 1. You said your family had children Ada 1893, Victoria 1895 and Eva 1899.

I am not going to give but after today I will try another thread. Can you help on this one. John

I too found this, but Birth cert for Victoria 1895 says Mother Mary Ann nee Cooper . Older Victoria 4 years younger.
They do not seem th be same family as Harry in 1891 & 1911 born in Birmingham but 1901 he is born in devon also 1891 and 1911 they are living in West Ham Leyton where there children were born. John

The Harry married to Victoria in 1901 was born Exeter, Devon.

Christine

On the 1901 census Harry is married to Victoria with children Ada 8, Victoria 5 and Eva 1.
Victoria Sr. was born 1875 Bermondsey.
They're living in Bermondsey.

We have been through Down marraiges from 1888 to1911. Now we have started on Coopers but 3 times as many Mary Ann's as Harry's. Need help and Advice. John.

is it posible that they did not get married. John

Ada Born West Ham 1893
Victoria West ham My nan 1895
Eva west Ham 1899

Mary ann born in Bermendsey c1871
Harry Birmingham c1871

When was your nan born?

What are the names (and years of birth) of her siblings?

Were all the children born in West Ham?

Jill

In 1891 Census Mary Ann Married to Henry Down from Bermingham

in 1911 Mary Ann married to Harry Down for 22 years.

They are my G.Grandparents (I hope) living in West Ham, Leyton Essex. in both censuses

On my Nans birth cert Mary Ann nee Cooper, mother
Henry Down father
place of birth West Ham Essex.

They do not seem to appear in 1901 census, (a Victoria and Harry do)

The 1911 census gives the right children and ages.

But I need help to find Marriage so I can get cert and find their Parents.
Thanks in advance John.