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My apologies everybody---I had to leave off early last night. I am amazed at the number of replies to my message! Now, to make matters worse, one of Mary Eleanor Stockwell's (nee Armer's)daughters (also named Caroline) had a number of items passed down from her mother---one of which was supposed to be the d.o.b.of her mother written on the back of an envelope. It has since transpired that it was the d.o.b. for a very different Mary Armer born in Kendal in 07/09/1855. A lady in Kendal has the Birth Cert for this particular Mary proving that SHE is not our relative! And some census returns do show Mary Eleanor as being 10 years younger than her husband James Harold Stockwell. So, we are very puzzled as to how this has come about? Sounds rather like a Cover-up ploy? I was in Kendal last weekend but was not able to find time to make enquiries---pity!
Thanks again everbody---Jeff
P.S. According to the lady in Kendal who has the Birth Cert for the other Mary Armer there are thousands of Armers around that area!

There is a death for a Matthew Armer that could fit, but if Caroline was married and hubby was still alive in 1851 then why is he not named on the christening record?:-

Deaths Mar 1854 (>99%)
Armer Matthew Ulverstone 8e 396
The district Ulverstone has been linked by FreeBMD to Ulverston although it is not strictly an alternative name for this district.
Ulverston spans the boundaries of the counties of Cumbria and Lancashire


However, on 1851 census there are two Matthew Armers living in Ulverston so this could also be one of those!

Jeff,
Need to know if father's name appears on that birth and, or,marriage cert. ?

Well, explain to Jeffrey about the purple Reply button. ;)

Like everybody else who doesn't understand this stupid site's stupid system, he needs to get the idea that *everybody* needs to know what he's saying!

Have already had and replied to pm's from Jeffrey!!

And corroborating evidence. Sedgewick was the one, in the 1862 marriage list.

1871:

Name: Luke Sowerby
Age: 62
Spouse's Name: Betty -- Betty is only 44 = Betty Airey
Where born: Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Undermilbeck
County/Island: Westmorland
Registration district: Kendal

Second batch of kids starts at age 8, i.e. born after Luke's 1852 remarriage to Betty.

I like all of Catherine's suggestions.

It's *possible* Caroline was married, and the child wasn't her husband's or some such.


Marriages Dec 1849
? Armer Matthew Kendal 25 553
Mashiter Thomas Kendal 25 553
? PICTHALL Caroline Kendal 25 553
Stephenson Mary Kendal 25 553
Sutton Mary Kendal 25 553
Wilson William Richardson Kendal 25 553


Well, I believe in ruling out the possibilities! 1851:

Matthew Armer 23
Mary Armer 23
James Armer 6 Mo


Somebody should PM Jeffrey to look at his thread, before people start going to registry offices to do searches. ;)

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1849 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Armer Matthew Kendal 25 553
Mashiter Thomas Kendal 25 553
PICTHALL Caroline Kendal 25 553
Stephenson Mary Kendal 25 553
Sutton Mary Kendal 25 553
Wilson William Richardson Kendal 25 553

just a possible if caroline did marry

will go to records office 4 you, and ill c wots on the marriage record...Tania

I've looked but couldn't see anything. Have tried just using christian name and just using surname but nothing even close.
Problem is there is no knowing exactly where Caroline was born. If she gave birth in Westmorland in 1851you would think that she would be in the area but ???

Have you looked for a Caroline Armer in 1851 in the correct area. I think her surname will be mistranscribed because I can see only 1 age 5 in Birmingham

Getting a bit desperate here, but you never know:-


1861 England Census
about C A
Name: C A
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Prisoner
Gender: Female
Where born: Helmess, Lancashire, England
(could very well be Holme)

Civil Parish: Kendal
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Kendal
County/Island: Westmorland
Country: England

Street address: House of Correction

Occupation: Labourer

Condition as to marriage: can't read it

Registration district: Kendal
Sub registration district: Kendal
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 31

never know, unmarried mum, maybe she was a bit of a girl??

On Mary Eleanor's marriage cert. what were the names of her witnesses and what was her address?

Couldn't see anything in 1871 for Caroline married to Luke Sowerby, but I did find this:-

Name: Caroline Sedgewick
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Ulverston, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Strickland Kettle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Oswald
Town: Boningate
County/Island: Westmorland
Country: England
Street address: (could be) Boningate

Registration district: Kendal
Sub registration district: Grayrigg
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 56
Household Members:
Name Age
John Sedgewick 44 born: Cartmel, Lancashire (Ag. Labourer)
Caroline Sedgewick 42
Elizabeth Sedgewick 7 months

Nothing to prove yet that it is your Caroline of course but maybe worth keeping on file??

Possible marriage for Caroline?:-

Marriages Jun 1862 (>99%)
Airey Bettey Kendal 10b 900
Airey Betty Kendal 10b 900
<<<Armer Caraline Kendal 10b 900
<<<Armer Caroline Kendal 10b 900
Sedgwick John Kendal 10b 900
Sowerby Luke Kendal 10b 900

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about Mary Eleanor Armer
Name: Mary Eleanor Armer
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 9 Nov 1851
Christening Place: Holme, Westmorland, England
Mother's Name: Caroline Armer

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Mary Eleanor Armer
Name: Mary Eleanor Armer
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Kendal (1837-1937)
County: Lancashire, Westmorland
Volume: 25
Page: 545 (click to see others on page)

Source Information:

Trying to find any info. on Mary Eleanor Armer b.1851 Holme, Westmorland. Only her Mothers name (Caroline---unmarried?) given on Baptism Record 9/11/1851. Mary Eleanor married James Harold Stockwell in 1878 but there is no trace in the years in between. Any information would be much appreciated.
Jeff Lonsdale (Gt.grandson)