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I have still been unable to find out what happened to a great aunt Mary Ann Francis, nee Smith. The 1891 census shows her living in Tottenham with her husband Elijah Francis and children. On the 1901 census he is living with someone else and his children. I assume that Mary Ann died between these two dates but have been unable to find a record of this. I obtained a death certificate for someone of the same name, 3rd quarter 1895, Edmonton District, no. 3a 220, but she was the wife of Arthur Francis. Can anyone please suggest where else I can try?
Brenda

How old would she have been when she died??

Cass

How about this one??

Deaths Sep 1891 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Francis Mary Ann 26 Islington 1b 198

Cass

She was born in 1862, so aged between 29 and 39.

Brenda

She might not have died..My Gt G/mother is on the 1891 as a widower but her husband is back home with his parents as a single man

Julie

1891 CENSUS

FRANCES, Elijah Head Married M 34 1857 Bricklayers Labourer
Hepworth
Suffolk
FRANCES, Mary Ann Wife Married F 29 1862
Suffolk
Weston Market
FRANCES, Elizabeth Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar
Suffolk
Weston Market
FRANCES, Caroline Daughter F 8 1883 Scholar
Suffolk
Weston Market
FRANCES, Roseanna Daughter F 6 1885 Scholar
Hepworth
Suffolk
FRANCES, Phoebe Daughter F 4 1887 Scholar
Tottenham
Middlesex
FRANCES, Elijah Son M 0 (8M) 1891
Tottenham
Middlesex
RG number:
RG12 Piece:
1068 Folio:
11 Page:
15

Registration District:
Edmonton Sub District:
Tottenham EnumerationDistrict:
5 Ecclesiastical Parish:
All Hallows

Civil Parish:
Tottenham Municipal Borough:
Address:
3, Tebworth Road, Tottenham County:
Middlesex

Thanks Julie, I am beginning to wonder this myself, especially as I cannot find a marriage between Elijah and his new partner. I am surprised that she would have left all her children.

1901 CENSUS ...............same children different wife !!!


FRANCIS, Elijah Head Married M 45 1856 Bricklayers Laborer
Hepworth
Suffolk
FRANCIS, Harriet Wife Married F 42 1859 <<<<<<<<<<<
Swacey
Cambridgeshire
FRANCIS, Florence Daughter Married F 22 1879 <<<<<<< should be TOTT per Julie ( see later posting )
Swacey
Cambridgeshire
FRANCIS, Caroline Daughter Single F 18 1883 Gun Factory Asst
Weston Mkt
Suffolk
FRANCIS, Rose Daughter Single F 16 1885 Gun Factory Asst
Weston Mkt
Suffolk
FRANCIS, Phoebe Daughter Single F 13 1888
Tottenham
Middlesex
FRANCIS, Elijah Son Single M 10 1891
Tottenham
Middlesex
TOTT, Alfred Son-In-Law Married M 24 1877 Bricklayers Laborer
Winchmore Hill
Middlesex
TOTT, Lilly Grand Child Single F 1 1900
Edmonton
Middlesex
RG number:
RG13 Piece:
1262 Folio:
110 Page:
4

Registration District:
Edmonton Sub District:
Edmonton EnumerationDistrict:
15 Ecclesiastical Parish:
All Saints

Civil Parish:
Edmonton Municipal Borough:
Address:
29, West Street, Edmonton County:
Middlesex

Me too!!

I can't see any deaths for the right age on freebmd.

Cass

This is the 1891 for Harriet her daughter Florence married Alfred Tott that is with her on the 1901

Harriet Marshall
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Swacey, Cambridgeshire, England

Civil Parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Marshall 44
Harriet Marshall 32
Florence Marshall 9


But i can't see a Marshall/ Francis marriage

Thanks Julie. Isn't it odd that on the 1901 census the daughter Florence gives her surname as Francis although she is married to Tott?

Brenda

It is seeing as she started as a Marshall

Thanks everyone. I shall have to give up for tonight.
OK, back again now. How can I check whether Mary Ann was in prison, or emigrated ( I think that transportation had ceased by 1891). If she went off with someone and took their name I shall never find her. It is very strange that I did not know she existed until I started this research. I knew, or knew of, the children and grandchildren of all her sisters, but had never heard her name or that of her children mentioned. Was there some scandal or dark family secret??

N

Hi Brenda -- it wasn't at all unusual for women living with men they weren't married to, to give his surname as theirs in the censuses. Common, in fact!

One set of my gr-grparents are in the 51, 61 and 71 censuses under his surname, with their kids by that surname, and didn't marry until 1872, 7 years after the birth of their last child. I assume one of them was previously married (both said not on the marriage certificate, I say ha!) and the existing spouse finally died.

... Haven't had any luck finding her either ...

Also, about Florence Marshall Tott being called Francis on the census --

this also isn't hugely uncommon; I've seen it quite a few times. I think it's enumerator error probably. The "children" were just listed with the parents' surname, and the children's spouses added to the mix with their own names. Maybe the enumerator asked for the children's names, and someone just said "Florence", and bingo, she was Florence Francis.

Hi EvieBeavie

I think I shall have to try and track down her children and grandchildren, and see if they know what happened.
Brenda