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Hello
I am desperately trying to find my Great Grandmother Kathleen Marion Berry and her family she was born 13 August 1881 in Godalming Surrey and died 13 March 1976 in Margate Kent.
It would mean a great deal to my Mother if someone out there knows anything about her and her family, as I can not even locate her in the Births Indexes.
Aparently she had a sister called Beatrice, but again going through the censuses and indexes I still come up with nothing.
Maybe she was adopted into the Berry household, if you do know anything then please contact me.
Kind Regards
Tanya
posted on 19 feb 09

Is this her ?

Marriages Dec 1907 (>99%)
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BERRY Kathleen Marion St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 1007
HUBBARD Reginald Horace St.Geo.H.Sq 1a 1007
PAYNE Constance Annie St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 1007
TARGETT William Albert St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 1007

found this one but not much help really
Beatrice BERRY (AFN: 14W4-H07) Pedigree
Sex: F Family


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Event(s)
Birth: 4 Apr 1884


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Parents
Father: Joseph William BERRY (AFN: 14W4-GS1) Family
Mother: Mary A. GREEN (AFN: 14W4-GT7)

1881 - possible

John BERRY Head M Male 33 Bermondsey, Surrey, England Fellmonger
Elizabeth BERRY Wife M Female 25 Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Violet E. BERRY Dau Female 4 Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Florence BERRY Dau Female 3 Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Beatrice BERRY Dau Female 1 Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Anne BISHOP Visitor U Female 14 Bermondsey, Surrey, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 64 Picton St
Census Place Camberwell, Surrey, England
Family History Library Film 1341156
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0672 / 18
Page Number 28

Not with surname Berry, not sure if they are any use??

Births Sep 1881 (>99%)
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ARNOLD Kathleen Marianne E Pancras 1b 206

Young Kathleen Marian Steyning 2b 272


Births Dec 1881 (>99%)
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DAVIES Kathleen Marian Croydon 2a 209


Cass

I wonder whether your grandmother was mistaken about her middle name, and possibly her birthdate?


Births Dec 1882
Berry Kathleen Eva Guildford 2a 87

Godalming is in Guildford registration district.


My grandfather was born in 1901 but believed all his life he was born in 1900, until he retired. (My grandmother, Eva, didn't have a middle name, but always wished she did ;) -- Mary.)


That Kathleen in 1901 with her family:

Name: Kathleen E Berry
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William J
Mother's Name: Mary H
Where born: Godalming, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Cowley St John
Town: Oxford
County/Island: Oxfordshire

William J Berry 50
Mary H Berry 50
Dora M Berry 25
Daisy Berry 20
Kathleen E Berry 18
Violet P Berry 16
Caroline L Berry 15
George Carter 60 (boarder)

But hmm, it seems that Kathleen was known by her middle name (which is why the initial is included in 1901); in 1891 she is:

Name: Eva K Berry
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William I
Mother's Name: Mary H
Where born: Godalming, Surrey, England


No Kathleen (or Mari*n) was registered in Guildford district in the July-Aug-Sept quarter of 1881.

Got her!


Births Sep 1881
Berry Kate Mary Guildford 2a 83

1891


Name: Kate Berry
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary
Where born: Godalming, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: West Horsley
Town: West Horsley
County/Island: Surrey

William Berry 40
Mary Berry 36
Kate Berry 9
Albert Berry 7
George Berry 5
Thomas Berry 3
Mary Berry 1
Emma Taylor 14


If Kate Mary is your Kate Marion. Will poke more.

My other grandmother was Lily. When she married, my grandfather insisted she do it as Lilian, because Lily was too common.

Your Kathleen, or her husband, may have felt the same way about her names. ;)

That Kate in 1901:

Name: Kate M Berry
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Assistant
Where born: Godalming, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Kingston On Thames
Ecclesiastical parish: Kingston All Saints
Town: Kingston On Thames
County/Island: Surrey


And in 1901 there is a Beatrice in the household:

Name: Beatrice Berry
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William H
Mother's Name: Mary
Where born: West Horsley, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: West Horsley

William H Berry 50
Mary Berry 46
George Berry 15
Jack Berry 4
Bob Berry 4
Tom Berry 13
Beatrice Berry 16
May Berry 12

Not sure how she's accounted for in 1891 ...

Evie - I know I keep saying this - you are a wizard at this - what these boards would do without you on them I have no idea - GR should be paying you!!!!

Ann XXXXX

All the girls seem to have got mum's name for their middle. ;)


Births Dec 1884
Berry Beatrice Mary Guildford 2a 72


That could account for Kate wanting a change.

Annie, Annie, Annie.

Go to FreeBMD and search for all Berrys born in Guildford reg dist 1880-1885.

Kate Mary kinda leaps off the monitor. ;)

How do you know which reg dist it is?

Use Ancestry for the 1881 instead of familysearch. I think familysearch doesn't show registration districts for the census records?

It's free at Ancestry. After a couple of searches you might have to register as a guest user is all.

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=7572

You can also just use the complete census search page and search 'em all, but you'll only be able to see details for 1881 w/o paying:

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/census/uk/default.aspx


At Ancestry, just search for John living in Godalming. Pick one at random and click on it (or just hover your mouse over it), and it will tell you what registration district it's in.

Then back to FreeBMD with the reg dist in hand, and search.


.... No, no, really. It's a crystal ball, years of secret schooling by an old woman from an island off the coast of Scotland, and an IQ of 245!

Oh, and also a willingness to make a complete fool of one's self not infrequently. ;)

Hello
Wow many thanks to everyone for all your help.
Lindey - Yes that is her, Kathleen's husband was Reginald Hubbard.

I have her death certificate here but it only gives me her date of birth and date of death.

Kind Regards
Tanya

Well -- I think you now have her birth and her family too!

Check 'em out. Perfect matches, I'd say. ;)

Also, Tanya --

Since you know her husband's name, you could find that marriage at FreeBMD:

http://www.freebmd.org.uk - click the red search

just searching for their two names.

The marriage certificate will tell her father's name.

Technically, you need both certificates -- marriage and birth -- to "prove" that Kathleen Marion Berry who married Hubbard was the Kate Mary Berry who was born in 1881 and the daughter of William and Mary.

To order certificates:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


You can look for her parents' marriage at FreeBMD now, guessing at the marriage by the birthdate of the oldest child in the censuses.

It sounds like you have census access, but just in case, this is the parents in 1891:

Name: Mary Berry
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Where born: Shillingstone, Dorset, England

Name: William Berry
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Where born: Haslemere, Surrey, England

Hello Everyone
You are absolutley smashing, as soon as I saw West Horsley I knew that you had found her, she is buried in the church yard there.
So thank you so so much for all your hard work.
I suppose we will never know now why she changed her name from Kate Mary to Kathleen Marion.
Once again Thank you so much.
Kind Regards
Tanya

You're very welcome!

For the name, my bet is that she (or her groom) was just putting on some airs, just like my grandfather was when he decided my grandmother needed to change hers. ;) He was from a class above her, and she needed to fit in. It could have been a similar situation.

Kate Mary's father William was a grocer's manager in the 1901 census, for info.

WOW Evie

You are just TOO GOOD!

Cass :-)))

Hello Everyone
Once again thank you very much for all your hard work, but can I please be cheeky and ask you for some more info as I having trouble placing Kathleen's (Kate Mary) Parents.
Yes her parents are William and Mary but when I search I can not find them, I know that Mary's Middle name is Emma as that is what it says on the Grave headstone, but her maiden name would be great or even their parents names for both William and Mary.
I would buy the certtificates if I knew for sure that they are the correct Parents and of course if I had the money to do so.
Your extra help would be fantastic.
Kind Regards
Tanya