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Hi Mick,

Wow, this is very exciting.

Yes please, would love to view your tree and exchange further info.

I have photos of Sarah and possibly one of Francis that you might be able to help identify.

Will send you a PM.

Thanks for getting in touch,

Sue

Hi Sue

I have a Francis Handley b 1878 married to Sarah Ellen Jarret in 1904 . He was my Grandfather Richard Leonard Handley's brother .My Grandfather was a professional soldier. do you want to view my tree?

Mick

Sue

I have sent you a Pm if you send me your E-mail addy i have 29 pages of info for you...there was 35 but 6 were blank

Julie

Oh wow!

Julie, thank you so much. I only found the basic details of his name and birth place, had no credits left to look up everything.

You are wonderful, I am so pleased you have found this for me.

At the same time, it has made me sad. Sarah Ellen lost her husband in Oct 1916. Five months later, she lost her daughter to TB.

Many thanks again, Sue

Well done Sue

I think if you know the area it can help a bit...I don't live that far from Epsom, & before that in London
____________________

Was it this that you found

Francis Handley
Birth Place: Leatherhead, Surrey
Residence: Marylebone, London
Death Date: 12 Oct 1916
Rank: Private
Regiment: York and Lancaster Regiment
Battalion: 2nd Battalion.
Number: 20519
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theater of War: Aldershot
Comments: Formerly 4534, Royal Garrison Artillery.

Ah ha!

Just searched for Francis Handley in WW1 death records.

There are two. One has birthplace of Leatherhead, which is the registration sub-district of Epsom, under which comes Gt. Bookham.

Looks as though I have found him.

Sue

Hi Julie and Blossom, and anyone else who might be interested ...

Sorry about delay in replying. Had to do some cooking.

While I was away from my PC it occurred to me that Francis Handley might well have died in WW1.

In which case, it could be quite difficult to find his death details.

Many thanks for your help, I'm so grateful to you for clarifying Francis birthplace. Amazing that there were 2 familes with such similar details. How easy it is to go barking up the wrong tree!

Best wishes, Sue

Oh Dear..Definitely no clues there.

It amazing how we really like to get drawn in and feel what our ancestors went through, Edith's sounds like an amazing woman.

Im not really sure where you can go from here to find his death

Julie

Hi Julie,

The informant on Sarah's D/C 16 Oct 1925 was her sister, Edith Kate Webb of 3 Solent Road, West Hampstead.

So there are no clues as to Handley / Handly relations unfortunately.

I have the impression Edith was a kind-of guardian angel to her elder sister. She was a witness at Sarah & Francis' wedding. Then, when Sarah's daughter (born when Sarah was aged 19 before she married Francis) got TB, Edith made sure she got proper care in a nearby care home run by nuns. That was in 1917. I was wondering whether Sarah was living with Edith at that time.

Trouble is, this has turned into a very real, human story, and I want to know more!!!

Thanks, Sue

Sue

I have look for his death and i can't see anything to say yes thats him, who was the informent on Sarah's D/C

Hi Blossom and Julie,

Many thanks for your quick work! Very enlightening.

The census returns you found have, I believe, solved the mystery of Francis' birth place. I trust the Great Bookham one, as I know the 1911 Census (with Gt. Bookham quoted) is the correct one for Francis and his wife Sarah Ellen.

Can anyone offer any suggestions asto how I find Francis' death? Sarah is my direct relation and I'd like to find out how long she was a widow before she died.

Best wishes, Sue

1881 England Census
about Francis Handley
Name: Francis Handley
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Agnes
Gender: Male
Where born: Paddington, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Kensington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 147 Southam St
Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 46b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Handley 36
Agnes Handley 48
William Handley 14
Ann Handley 11
Richard Handley 9
George Handley 7
Sarah Handley 5
Francis Handley 3

View
Original
Record

View original image

If so, then this could be the other family in Surrey that's causing the confusion:


1891 England Census
about Richard Handley
Name: Richard Handley
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Matilda
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester

Civil Parish: Great Bookham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
Town: Great Bookham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Epsom
Sub registration district: Leatherhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Handley 50
Matilda Handley 49
Richard Handley 17
Francis Handley 12
William Handley 10
Emily Handley 7
George Edward 62

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Original
Record

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This could be Richard in 1891 but not sure:


1891 England Census
about Richard Handley
Name: Richard Handley
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie
Gender: Male
Where born: Ranton, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 48
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Handley 45
Annie Handley 45

View
Original
Record

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Vie

The 1891 also say Gt Bookham so this is probably his birth

Births Sep 1879 (>99%)
Handley Francis Epsom 2a 27

Francis Handley
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Matilda
Gender: Male
Where born: Bookham, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Great Bookham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
Town: Great Bookham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Epsom
Sub registration district: Leatherhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Handley 50
Matilda Handley 49
Richard Handley 17
Francis Handley 12
William Handley 10
Emily Handley 7
George Edward 62



Your link to Surrey is through Matilda her birth place is Capel, Surrey, England
___________________________________

1881...No E in their surname

Francis Handly
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Matilda
Gender: Male
Where born: Gt Bookham

Civil Parish: Great Bookham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address: Church St
Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Epsom
Sub registration district: Leatherhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Handly 41
Matilda Handly 40
Elizabeth Handly 11
Mary Ann Handly 9
Richard Handly 7
George Handly 4
Francis Handly 1

So this is Richard, Francis's father, in Lambeth in 1901:


1901 England Census
about Richard Handley
Name: Richard Handley
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark Kennington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Kennington Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 166
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Handley 55
Charles Bennitt 41

View
Original
Record

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View b

I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who can offer advice about, or knows of, Francis Handley, born around 1878 - 1880.

I'm trying to find the date of Francis' death, and so far my searches on FreeBMD have proved unsuccessful.

Francis died some time between 1911 and 1925. According to the 1911 Census, he and his wife Sarah Ellen were living and working as domestic servants at 6 Stratford Place, St. Marylebone.

In Oct 1925 Sarah Ellen died. On her Death Cert. she is described as the widow of Francis Handley, a builder's labourer. At the time of her death, Sarah was living with her sister and employed as her cook, in Solent Road, West Hampstead.

I have a feeling that, when Francis and Sarah left their employment in Stratford Place, they would have stayed in the Marylebone or Paddington area, or maybe that's when they moved to Hampstead. I get the impression they never had their own home.

Unfortunately I don't have any other Christian name for Francis - on his marriage cert and the 2 census returns I have, he is just 'Francis'.

I'm not sure whether Francis and Sarah had any children - probably not if they were in service as a couple.

I have two different places for Francis' birth: the 1881 Census says Paddington, while the 1911 Census says Great Bookham, Surrey. I haven't been able to find any other links with Surrey. Francis' father Richard was living in Lambeth on 1911 Census. I believe he was born in Staffs.

Many thanks, Sue