Find Ancestors

What I was saying about stepfathers -- it's also possible that his mother had remarried (or not but said she did) and Cadman was his stepfather's surname and not his own at birth, and he appears in censuses under the stepfather's surname.

Or -- his mother was the Cadman, he was born when she was not married, she subsequently married, and he appears in censuses under a stepfather's surname.

In situations like that, especialy the unmarried mother whose surname the child marries under, making up a father's given name out of thin air is quite common. Or using the given name of the maternal grandfather.

Mind you, common as those may be, they're still just a small fraction of the total, and odds would be you're looking for a real Thomas Cadman son of a real Robert Cadman who was simply deceased by the time of the 1841 census.

Hi Evie
Yes I will try the freeREG as you suggest.
His age at death was 34 yrs old (and that was in 1860 in Dudley.)
gonna keep searching
will get back if i come up with anything and thanks for trying so hard.
cathy

For the real thing you have to go to the source, and I'm no expert on them. I'd google Staffordshire Registry Office or something. See how much use I am.

FreeREG isn't widely known yet because it's just getting on line, and still needing volunteers to transcribe, huge undertaking that it is. Sometimes you get lucky -- some parishes have nothing, but the tiny parish where one set of my grx4 grandparents married is obviously of interest to someone else, because its records for the 1780s have been transcribed, and I got my grx4 grandmother's name! I had got a copy of the parish baptism for their son by mail from the county reg office, but it wasn't Staffordshire.

Try googling Staffordshire Family History to see whether there's a FH society or the like. You might also be able tjust to get a search of parish records -- that's what I got from Wiltshire. I'd got the basic details on line, and they found me another child of the same marriage. I'd got that here:

http://www.familyhistoryonline.net

which is somewhere else you might try -- I don't know how Staffordshire records are for being available, but worth looking.

Hi Evie
do you know how I would get a copy of this baptism record ?
I didn`t know about FREEREG.

cathy

Oops, you noticed before I did.

It's possible that he was reared by a stepfather, didn't know his real father's given name (or wanted no association with him), and used the stepfather's given name when he married.

That scenario is very common. On the other hand, it's equally if not more likely we've found the wrong Thomas.

You can't know that 1846 is his DOB for sure if it's from a marriage cert. He may have lied to make himself old enough to marry, or as old as Rosanna.

Browse around the results at FreeREG and see what you might see!

Aargh, I'm an idiot, the father was George ...

Hi Evie
wow thanks ,yes it does seem to fit best so far.
Thomas and rosanna`s first child was named sarah jane ! wonder why he stated his father as robert on marriage cert.though ?

but also thomas`s middle name ( I din`t know he had one) being george would possibly follow that georgina was a name which continued.(as well as rosannas father of course)

Thomas`s date of birth was worked out from marriage and death cert yes.

Aha aha, look what I found.


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl


County Staffordshire
Place Wolverhampton
Church St Peters
RegisterNumber 41466
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 29 Aug 1826
Forename Thomas George
Sex M
FatherForename Thomas
MotherForename Jane
FatherSurname CADMAN
MotherSurname
Abode Wolverhampton
>> FatherOccupation Miner
Notes Recorded by Tho WALKER
FileNumber 5203


Best fit so far! You may have lucked in, with FreeREG still being so very sketchy.

The DOB you have, 1826, is from his age at marriage?

Hi Evie
Thankyou

Yes I have the marriage certificate for Thomas (b.about 1826) he married in 1846 in Sedgeley etc... and it`s his certificate where Roberts occupation is stated to be Miner.

I have tried and tried to find a 1841 census record which has them both on it but can`t find one for the areas I think they would have been. I know Its likely they may not have even come from this area ( sedgely/bilston) but am struggling to know how to check out anything I do find? in my attempt to find Thomas`s birth .

In searching for Robert I hoped to find the necessary records which would then allow me to get Thomas`s birth, as well as info on his parents obviously.

I gave too much info on Thomas`s family and confused you and everyone else too ,sorry.

I have no idea of any siblings for Thomas but have tried to look at children/grandchildren etc to see if there was a continuation of names as often happens, and perhaps see if some of what was found yesterday might tie in.
There are some names which are repeated in generations eg.Ann,Caroline,Thomas but non of the others listed as possible siblings.
Robert ?!! is not seen at all in any descendants that we know of, up to now.

I don`t now how to proceed now and what to try ? so am open to any suggestions/tips etc.

thanks again for your patience and endurance !!
cathy

PS. Yes,the record you found for Robert and Hannah has looked possible to me when I came accross it before,so I guess anything is possible but how to check it ? or the Thomas`s who are alone (or apart from their family ) who have been found . I just don`t know.....

I'll take another kick at it later, Cathy. I have some work I have to do for the next few hours. Check back!

I'm not too clear myself. I thought it was Robert / the parents of Thomas 1826, that you were looking for info about.

Are the Robert and Hannah/Ann I've found in 1841 and 1851 the ones, do you think?

I gather you don't know anything at all about Thomas's parents or siblings, so without finding them together in 1841, it's going to be a bit of a leap probably.

You have Thomas 1826's marriage certificate ... is that part right? And it says his father Robert is a miner? That wouldn't fit with the Robert I found, who was a shoemaker, in 1841 at least.

Or is it Thomas 1858's marriage cert that says his father was a miner?

Try again to sort it out a bit if you would, and that would help.

(So, if I can just give a tip, would spacing your paragraphs like I have here -- just an extra hit on the Enter key. It just makes it so very much easier to pick out information.)

please can someone sort me out on this?
thankyou
cathy

Hi all of you.Thankyou for responding and please accept my apology for not being around. I had to leave sorry.
ok..now I only guessed at Thomas`s birth date from his marriage cert. and his death certificate which I have. His father is listed as Robert,occ.Miner ( doesn`t say deceased) they were living in Bilston at time of marriage and married in Sedgeley parish church 1846 witnesses Thomas Fieldhouse,Sarah Turner? Thomas is `full age` but Rosanna is `minor` although she is already a widow. her first marriage was to Thomas Glover.

Thomas died in Dudley, 1860. still a collier,and died in mining accident.
I do not know where he was born. sorry I made a mistake in my original thread have now corrected it.

The 1861 census you found is Thomas`s family the year after his death..yes.
I can`t seem to find the 1851 census,will keep looking,must have put it somewhere!! will be back in touch when I do.
I do appreciate all the effort you have put into trying to help,and I hope you will not have given up on me,I will not be back on for a few hours now but will check back this afternoon
thanks cathy
edit: I have obviously got the 2 thomas`s mixed up!! the thomas snr I do not have a census record for...it is only the 1851 thats possible, given his date of death 1860!! and if I remember correctly now I have never been able to find it !!
Thomas and Rosanna had another child too,she was born 1858 and died the same year as Thomas feb1860 and died of rubela. the family were living at Peel Street,Willenhall,Wolverhampton in county of Stafford according to her death certificate.
I`m so sorry to keep having to correct myself it`s got me going round in circles !!! and whenever do anything in a rush it always goes wrong doesn`t it? !! I hope someone can help.
I`m hoping to be able to get the info to enable me to `complete` and produce a book for my Father, who has just been diagnosed with alzeimers,sadly, and we are hoping to assist his thinking and remembering for a short time at least, with this book full of photos as well as names and info on the family etc.
thanks again,cathy

This is them in 1851:


Name: Robert Cadman
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Where born: Stafford, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: Stafford St Mary
Town: Stafford
County/Island: Staffordshire

Registration district: Stafford
Sub registration district: Stafford

Robert Cadman 42
Ann Cadman 50
Francis Cadman 19
Ann Cadman 15

Working from that list of children's names, found daughter Ann in the 1841.

These will be the parents -- Hannah = Ann:


Name: Robert Cadman
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: St Mary and St Chad
Hundred: South Pirehill
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Stafford
Sub registration district: Stafford

Robert Cadman 35
Francis Cadman 10
Ann Cadman 5
Ann Cadman 40

(Obviously Frances 1838 did not survive.)


Robert is a shoemaker -- is that consistent with Thomas's marriage certificate?

There are a couple of unaccompanied Thomas Cadman-s of about the right age in the 1841, but no way to tell which he might be, if either, unless the geography indicates. They're not in the same parish as the parents.

Thomas is No. 7. Searching for births in the same batch as him with parents Robert and Hannah, all but 1 and 5 would be potential siblings for Thomas.


Results for:
British Isles
Father: Robert Cadman, Mother: Hannah
Batch Number: C010223

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 11

1. ROBERT CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 05 FEB 1809 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
2. CAROLINE CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 MAR 1833 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
3. FRANCIS CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 20 APR 1831 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
4. MARY CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 28 JAN 1821 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
5. ELIZABETH CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 12 JUL 1807 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
6. MARTHA CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 26 FEB 1823 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
7. THOMAS CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 19 JUL 1829 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
8. JOHN CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 DEC 1826 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
9. FRANCES CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 DEC 1838 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
10. HANNAH CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 SEP 1818 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
11. ANN CADMAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 03 FEB 1836 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England

Keep in mind that if Thomas was born 1826ish, his parents could well have been deceased by 1841.

They married in 1846 in Dudley (FreeBMD). Where are they in 1851?

You say you have the census after marriage; can you share that? It gives info that can be useful for searching in 1841, like place of birth.

Is Robert's DOB a guess?

Willenhall is in Staffordshire:

There's this one:

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

THOMAS CADMAN

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
19 JUL 1829 Saint Mary, Stafford, Stafford, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: ROBERT CADMAN
Mother: HANNAH

For reference:


1861 England Census
about Rosanna Cadman
Name: Rosanna Cadman
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Dudley, Worcestershire, England

Civil Parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub registration district: Wolverhampton Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 65
Household Members:
Name Age
Rosanna Cadman 34
Sarah Jane Cadman 7
Thomas Cadman 4
Georgeann Cadman 6 Mo

which county is Willenhall in?

How do you know when and where he was born?



sylvia