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XmasEvie Beavie (and anyone else!!)

I now have the marriage certificate as mentioned above. It shows that William James Newton aged 64 years, a widower - father John Newton (Labourer) married Alice Warren aged 53 years, a widow - father John Canter or Cantor (Labourer).

Again many many thanks to you and Eric. I will pursue all these lines of enquiry after crimbo and come back with any further enquiries.

Must go now, have to cook dinner for other half who is due in from work any minute now !!!

That's okay -- the conversation was still ongoing and I don't mind it running its course before the formalities are observed. You're welcome. ;)


The naval hospital entry was in the 1871 census, taken from Ancestry. I had had a look at Loudwater (an obvious mistranscription at Ancestry there) and seen the proximity, so it's a reasonable connection -- not necessarily making him your person, of course!


There's this as the closest match in 1861:

Name: James Newton
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Where born: Cholesbury, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Cholesbury

James Newton 35 - born Cholesbury
David Newton 77
Sophia Newton 7
James Newton 5
David Newton 3
Susannah Pierce 21


If that should turn out to be him, you'd be in luck - a grandfather in the household.

No point in pursuing it until you have the father's name on the marriage cert though!

And I forgot to say many many thanks for your digging around on my behalf. I would have said so sooner but I got so excited by the new discoveries I got side tracked.

The wycombe birth register entry and the person in the military hospital may well be one and the same because Loudwater is not very far from Wycmbe

Another interesting follow up - I've just got to convince the wife that the expense is worth it!!!

XmasEvieBeavie

In either 1891 or 1901 he gives his place of birth as Iver, which is about 12 miles Wycombe as the crow flies I believe.

Can I ask where you got the military hospital information?

According to the birth cetificates I have Williams first wife Elizabeth's maiden name was Conroy. By my reckoning her death certificate age and the time of year she died (late December) means she was born in 1859.

I've just searched http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com and the only record for 1859 relates to Elizabeth Conry. The closest Elizabeth Conroy are in 1858 & 1860. All from different counties! Not knowing where in Ireland she comes from is going to hamper me somewhat I think !!!

Births Mar 1853
NEWTON James Wycombe 3a 392


He could have been James William who went by his middle name, particularly if his father was James.

This is consistent with the use of a middle initial e.g. in censuses -- the middle initial often stands for the first given name, where the person went by the middle name, in my experience.

On that theory --

Name: William J Newton
Age: 19
>> Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Patient
Where born: Londwater, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Alverstoke
Ecclesiastical parish: Alverstoke
Town: Haslar
County/Island: Hampshire
Registration district: Alverstoke

>> ED, institution, or vessel: Royal Naval Hospital

Age is consistent with reported age at death.

btw, in 1881 he would certainly have been in Ireland -- in 1891:

Elizabeth Newton 31 - born Ireland
James Newton 9 - born Ireland

So son James was born 1881-2 in Ireland, and with Elizabeth born there it certainly looks as if they were married there.

Do you have her surname from a later child's birth cert?

I wonder whether William was in the military and that was why he was in Ireland?

Or he could have been born there, true, but it does seem odd that he would report born in Buckinghamshire so consistently then.

Re William's birth - may as well wait until you have the marriage cert.

It will give his father's name and occupation, and also what William reported his own age as again.

Post it here when you get it and we'll all be able to take another kick at it with that info.

That Alice Maud Warren's household in 1891 in Bishop Stortford:

George C Warren 47
Sarah Warren 43
Alice M Warren 20
Beatrice E Warren 18
Frederick C Warren 16
Edith B Warren 13
Herbert A Warren 11
William A Warren 7
Stanley E Warren 5


Father George, your Alice's second child with William was George. The 1917 marriage certificate will confirm, if that's her.

Anyone got any ideas on Williams birth ?

I've just looked at the 1917 marriage - it looks very promising; I will chase this one up after crimbo

Checked the image.

Warren, Alice + Newton is the corresponding entry. Looks like that's them!

She could be that Alice -- but given the late date of the marriage, if that's the one (the spouse hasn't been transcribed yet, you'd have to check the matching Warren on the original image), it may be that she was already married when she and William partnered and her husband didn't die until later, and Warren was her married surname.

Warren is given as her birth surname on children's birth certs though?

the census details shown are the correct ones. I do not have marriage certificates - I suspect the first marriage was in Ireland, and I can't find any trace of the second one.

I've tried the IGI for the 1881 census and got no trace. The only time he crops up is in 1891 and 1901. I have the 1st wifes death certificate and he is shown as James Newton?

William and Alice 'got together' between 19/12/1895 (death of 1st wife) and 19/04/1897 (birth of Albert - their 1st child).

As far as I can tell 2nd wife was Alice Maud Warren born 1871 B.Stortford

Just as I paid attention to the info in the 1901, EtR. ;)

First child of that union born in Stepney.

That looks like it will be the marriage.

Oh, and then I failed to pay attention to the date of the marriage.

But if this is William's death:

Deaths Mar 1920
NEWTON William J 66 Croydon 2a 353

then it matches.

I'd probably go with the age/dob he reported himself in censuses rather than his reported age at death, at least tentatively.

Aargh.

1901

Name: Fredk Lewton
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Alice
>> Where born: Hertford, Hertfordshire, England

Elizabeth dies 1895.

Name: Albert Lewton
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Alice
>> Where born: Stepney, London, England