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Hi, I'm back been the taxi for son !!! Penkridge keeps appearing I think its a district of Cannock.
Anyway am still puzzled by this grandson business, could the census "person" had written the details wrong as its a bit of a coincidence that both the boys, son and grandson were the same age? Any ideas?

Sarah

looks like the older children's births were registered in penkridge, not cannock

Right, Joseph married a Martha Haddaway and had four boys, Joseph, Percy (who died in the war), Jack (who is still a mystery) and Leonard who was my husband's grandfather.

The grandson bit is puzzling me, if this William was his grandson then William Jnr's father would be William's son !! but the grandson is about the same age as William Snr's own children.

in 1901 have got Joseph shorter b1876 (married to Martha and children jospeh and percy) with brother william b1879 living with
both are coal miners

in 1901 William J b1880 is son to Jabez and Eliza, so he can't be your William after all

if they were married in 1870 and joseph born in 1878 then he probably was theirs

death in cannock 1893 for elizabeth shorter b1848

Have found a marriage on freebmd of a William Shorter and Maria Prime for Sept 1898

Oh my oh my don't you just love families. Off we go again another mystery to solve - wonder if my father in law knows any of this, perhaps I can find a marriage for this Maria somewhere and go from there

in 1901 william is married to a maria, no shorter children but 4 PRIME children

Now I'm lost, I've found births for Albert 1884, John 1881, William Jabez 1880 and Joseph Edward 1878 now I have it that William and Elizabeth married in 1870 so Joseph was already 8, was he her son or someone elses son? or have I lost the plot altogether. What I originally had was a son called William H for William and Elizabeth born 1879 but he now looks as though he is the grandson not the son, I do wish people would not name their children after family members its far too confusing.

elizabeth shaw widow looks like the mother of elizabeth who married william

Thanks cagsie, so Elizabeth Shaw was married to someone else before William, from other bits & bobs I have found out I have William and Elizabeth as having children named Ellen 1872, Joseph 1876 and William 1879 not the others and as for the grandson bit thats thrown me !! The more I find out the deeper a hole I seem to dig for myself. Could the others have been her children from the first marriage?

Sarah

yup looks like you have

Thanks cagsie can you just confirm that I've got the others correct.

Sarah

looking at 1881 he is joseph, family living with elizabeth shaw widow

looks like Joe

I have just printed a copy of the 1891 census for a William Shorter and Elizabeth (nee Shaw). He is a coal miner. I am trying to read the names of the children on it and have come unstuck what I think it says is this - William H Shorter grandson 12, Albert, John, William and one other which I cant make out.

Can someone help please

Sarah