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I got the marriage certificate back for Jane Smailes she married in 1891 age 23 so that made her birth 1868 and her father's name was Matthew Smailes, but I still cannot find any record of her. I have two birth certificates of her children and her marriage certificate and they all say just Jane Smailes no middle name. Can anyone help.....PLEASE!!!

This is sounding 'scottish' to me - if so, I can't help.

If not - please give some more details.

Dea x

Poss for birth?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Dec 1867 (>99%)
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Smailes Jane Ann Durham 10a 264


Andy

It is very likely she was born in Durham but she had no middle name.....I had that record but I have been told that her father was Isaac and hermarriage certificate says Matthew so i looks like a different one...I cannot find a Matthew Smailes at all??

What is shown for the occupation of Matthew on the wedding cert?

Was he by any chance listed as deceased?

Have you found her in 1901.

I found her census in 1901 as Jane Robson, they had a son Thomas Locout Robson and he is on the census. Her father's occupation was Coal miner but not listed as deceased.

1901 to save anyone looking at previous thread

Name: Jane Robson
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Robert
Gender: Female
Where born: Medomsley, Durham, England

Civil Parish: Collierley
Ecclesiastical parish: Dipton St John
Town: Dipton
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Lanchester
Sub registration district: Tanfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
William T Owen 21
Jane Robson 33
Robert Robson 42
Thomas Robson 8



Marriages Dec 1891 (>99%)
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Petersen Christine Walderman Newcastle T. 10b 141
Robson Robert Newcastle T. 10b 141
Sadler Margreltir Daritliea M Newcastle T. 10b 141
Smailes Jane Newcastle T. 10b 141

Thank you for your help so far.....I wonder why I cannot find any census records before her marriage or any of her father?

You mentioned an Isaac i noticed Jane with Grandparents on the 1871

1871 England Census
about Jame A Smailes
Name: Jame A Smailes
[Jane Smailes]
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Kyo, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Kyo
Ecclesiastical parish: Colliery
Town: White Le Head
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Durham
Sub registration district: Tanfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 343
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Smailes 54
Isaac Smailes 22
Jame A Smailes 3
Mary Smailes 26
Thomas Smailes 19
William Smailes 55

There is a son Isaac here,wonder if his middle name was Matthew?

I am having so much rouble finding them that I am beginning to think that the Jane I found was was the right one, I entered the inormation in my tree and was contacted by someone who told me I had the wrong person. All 3 certificated do not give her as having a middle name??? Would it be possible for her father to give his middle name only on her marriage certificate? Perhaps she gave the name not realsing he used his middle name....oh I think I am slowly going mad...I have spent soooo long on this one!!!

have gone rite through this family and her grandparents ann and william had no matthew

this 1881 fits with dob and place of birth but Matthew is her brother

Robert SMAILES Head M Male 55 Tanfield, Durham, England Inn Keeper And Miner
Elizabeth SMAILES Wife M Female 52 Winlaton, Durham, England
Robert SMAILES Son U Male 23 Winlaton, Durham, England Coal Miner
Joseph SMAILES Son U Male 19 Chester Le Street, Durham, England Coal Miner
Matthew SMAILES Son U Male 16 Winlaton, Durham, England Coal Miner
John SMAILES Son U Male 14 Medomsley, Durham, England
Janey SMAILES Daur U Female 12 Medomsley, Durham, England
Margaret SMAILES Daur U Female 10 Medomsley, Durham, England

One little note. I have noticed that people sometimes do not pay attention to the corrections made at Ancestry.

The 1901 record says

Name: Jame A Smailes
[Jane Smailes]

with the little symbol beside the alternate name, meaning that an Ancestry subscriber has made the correction. If you click on the corrected name, you can see the comments the subscriber made, and the username of the person who made the correction, and in most cases you will be able to contact that person.

So I was going to have a look ... and all Ancestry is telling me tonight is "Record information was unavailable." This is a not infrequent glitch at the Ancestry site.

If you try another day, you may be able to see the information.

Now, someone has also corrected two other surnames on that page. It may be that the person who made the correction is not related to Jane, and just noticed that error at the same time as he or she was looking at someone else.

... Oh, well, here we go, now it is working.

Correction Detail:
Given Name: Jane
Correction Type: Transcription Error
Explanation: FHS Research
Contributed By: atthey47
Contributed On: 19/09/2008

It is hard to tell from that note how much the person might know about Jane, but it might be worth inquiring. (The other two corrections on the page were indeed made by two different people.)

If the person did know something about that Jane, e.g. whom she married, you would be able to rule her out, anyway.

The only Matthew Smail* birth or marriage in the GRO before 1860 is this marriage:

Marriages Mar 1838
Smailes Matthew Newcastle upon Tyne 25 291

Interestingly, two of the four potential brides are named Jane.

Spelling was not an exact science, though. You might want to consider Smales and Smails.

We have to remember that not all children were born to married parents, and that when those children married, they tended to invent fathers. Even if their own father was known - if they did not have the father's surname. The father might be the real father's given name with the mother's surname, or the stepfather's given name with the mother's surname ... or, not uncommonly, the mother's father's name.

Could Jane have been the daughter of an unmarried mother, whose father was Matthew Smailes, for example?

If her mother had subsequently married, Jane might be in the censuses under her mother's husband's surname.

Allowing for spelling variations/errors, these look like the possible Janes in the GRO:


Births Dec 1867
Smailes Jane Ann Durham 10a 264
Smales Jane Elizabeth Driffield 9d 255

Births Jun 1868
SMALES Jane Elizabeth Stockton 10a 78

Births Sep 1868
SMAIL Jane Birkenstead (undoubtedly Birkenhead) 8a 444

Births Dec 1868

SMALES Jane Ann Newcastle T. 10b 73


I just can't find the Matthew who married in 1838 anywhere. If he died before 1841, the death apparently wasn't registered.

I might suspect, though, that Jane was born to a daughter of his who was not married, and is hiding somewhere in the censuses under her stepfather's surname.

This might be my best guess for an unmarried Ms. Smailes as your Jane's possible mother:

Births Sep 1848
Smailes Jane Alnwick 25 251

In 1861:

Name: Jane Smailes
Age: 12
Relation: Servant
Where born: Warkworth, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Warkworth


A Jane Smailes who could be her married:

Marriages Jun 1866
Nicholson George Newcastle T 10b 187
SMAILES Jane Newcastle T. 10b 187

and was rapidly widowed; in 1871:

Name: Jane Nicholson
Age: 22
Relation: Widow
Where born: Newcastle Upon Tyne

with son George, 2.

Or:

Marriages Sep 1867
SMAILER Jane Castle W. 10b 335 - it says SMAILES
THOMPSON Joseph Castle W 10b 335


Well, here's an unfortunate situation.

The 1871 census:

Name: Jane Thompson
Age: 3
Relation: Daughter
Civil Parish: Seghill
Registration district: Tynemouth

Name: James Thompson
Age: 1
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Jane


That's it for the household. The census images are all muddled up. They're at the top of page 3, which is page 6 in Ancestry's sequence, and the preceding page at Ancestry is page 5. Let's see whether they're just out of order.

Yes. But no, blast. Parents are Thomas and Jane (of Durham) Thompson, at the bottom of page 2.

No Jane Thompson husband Joseph to be found in 1871 or 1881, except for one born in 1830, and one born in 1856.


Still hunting ...

Marriages Dec 1891
Robson Robert Newcastle T. 10b 141
Smailes Jane Newcastle T. 10b 141

Are we absolutely certain that the Robert and Jane in 1901 that Glitter Baby posted above are the right couple? And that Thomas Lockout (not Locout?) Robson born 1892 is your Thomas?

Births Jun 1892
Robson Thomas Lockout Lanchester 10a 331

Is this your ancestor, Donna? Ah. I finally look at your other thread ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1096162

"Can anyone help me find her, I thought I had but it was a Jane Ann and I need just Jane. I think she was born in Medomsley, Durham. She married a Robert Robson and had two children Thomas Lockout Robson 1892 and Bessie Smailes Robson 1909."

And Bessie is your grandmother. You do know for sure that Thomas Lockout Robson is her brother?

It just seems odd that your Robert and Jane married in Newcastle Upon Tyne, when they were born in Durham, and their kids were born in Durham, and they were living in Durham:

Births Sep 1909
ROBSON Bessie Smailes Lanchester 10a 322

You said on Oct 22 you were getting his birth certificate -- have you got it?

There has certainly been a trail of threads on this ... wouldn't it be nice - for everyone - if we could end it! (For "losing" your threads, Donna -- all you have to do is click on "My threads" on the left of your screen, and you will see them ... all.)


Okay, Houston. We have some headway. I had been wondering all along (and still do) whether Jane was previously married.

Robert Robson was previously married.

Name: Robert Robson
Age: 32
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Ann
Where born: Whickham, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Collierly and Pontop
Registration district: Lanchester
Marital status: WIDOWED
Occupation: Coke Drawer


1881:

Name: Robert Robson
Age: 21
Spouse's Name: Bridgett
Where born: Sunnyside, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Collierley
Occupation: Coke Drawer

There was a very long stretch between the birth of Thomas Lockout Robson and the birth of Bessie Smailes Robson.

Might only the second child have been Jane's? Might the marriage have been much later?

Or might they not have been married at all?

If she were Jane Smailes by marriage:

Marriages Dec 1893
? Armstrong Jane Ann Lanchester 10a 435
Petch Emma Hannah Lanchester 10a 435
? Smailes George Lanchester 10a 435
Stephenson William Lanchester 10a 435

There are no matching George and/or Jane Smailes in the 1901 census.

If she were Jane Smailes but previously married:

Marriages Sep 1909
DOBSON Annie Lanchester 10a 619
MASON William Lanchester 10a 619
? ROBSON Robert Lanchester 10a 619
? WHITFIELD Jane Gardner Lanchester 10a 619

or

Marriages Jun 1908
? AVERY Jane Alnwick 10b 836
GREACHEN Elizabeth Mary Alnwick 10b 836
KING George Henry Alnwick 10b 836
? Robson Robert Alnwick 10b 836 Scan available - click to view
Smailes Matthew Alnwick 10b 836 <<
(Appears to be an extra/missing name here)


Possibilities ...


This is the Smailes household in Medomsley in 1871:

Ann Smailes 12
Elizabeth Smailes 41
Frances Smailes 2
James Smailes 4
Joseph Smailes 10
Margaret Smailes 9 months
Mary Smailes 17
Matthew Smailes 6 << note name
Robert Smailes 44
Robert Smailes 15
Sarah Smailes 8

An interesting other Southern connection, in 1881:

Name: George Suthren Smaile
Age: 7
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Wilkinson - Colliery Brakesman
Mother's Name: Ann
Where born: Sunnybrow, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Willington

1881

Name: Jane Armstrong
Age: 14
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Ann
Where born: Medomsley, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Medomsley
Street address: Hamsterley Colly

Ann and Robert were born in Haltwhistle, Northumberland. Jane is the oldest child in the household. She could have been a child of Ann's before marriage to Robert. I can't find either Robert or Ann in other censuses.

and/or

1891:

Name: Jane Armstrong
Age: 24
Relation: Servant
Where born: Whickham, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Whickham

In 1881, that Jane is the daughter of George and Anne, in Whickham.



Possible candidates for:

Marriages Dec 1893
Armstrong Jane Ann Lanchester 10a 435
Petch Emma Hannah Lanchester 10a 435
Smailes George Lanchester 10a 435
Stephenson William Lanchester 10a 435


If Jane had been still married to George Smailes, she may have used his surname as hers when she had Bessie.

Just wild theories.

So far, I prefer the one that Jane Smailes was the daughter of an unmarried (Jane?) Smailes and in censuses under her stepfather's surname.

Well, I did wonder about that James aged 4 in Medomsley in 1871.

1881:

Name: Janey Smailes
Age: 12
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Where born: Medomsley, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Chopwell
Registration district: Gateshead

It does say James, and male, in 1871. It's definitely the same household.

But in 1881 it very definitely says Janey and female.

Another one for the pot.

There was only one Ja* Smailes born in that time and place:

Births Dec 1867
Smailes Jane Ann Durham 10a 264

Where that Janey was in 1891 ...


Marriages Mar 1886
Atkinson William Thomas Lanchester 10a 348
? BELL William Lanchester 10a 348
HOBKIRK Mary Jane Lanchester 10a 348
* SMAILES Jane Ann Lanchester 10a 348

1891? (no Jane Atkinson)

Name: Jane Bell
Age: 24
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William - born Northumberland
Where born: Durham, England
Civil Parish: Gateshead

but that couple appears to be in the 1901, with her shown as born in Northumberland. So I suspect they are not the couple who (may have) married in Lanchester - ? There are loads of William Bells born around then in Northumberland, in 1901 ...


and interestingly

Marriages Jun 1893
? Bell Jane Ann Haltwhistle 10b 503
Hewitson Isabel Haltwhistle 10b 503
Pape William Edward Haltwhistle 10b 503
? Robson Robert Haltwhistle 10b 503


So many possibilities for the pot.

Right the certificates I have are:

Marriage 5th Dec 1891 Jane Smailes - spinster age 23 Cross Street address to Robert Robson - batchelor age 31 mechanic cross street address - fathers are Thomas Robson Coke burner and Matthew Smailes coal miner. Married in the Parish church Newcastle upon Tyne.

Birth Cetificates:

Thomas Lockout Robson 1st may 1892 65 Delight Bank Collierley, Tanfield, Durham father Robert Robson. Coke drawer, mother Jane Robson formerly Smailes

Bessie Smailes Robson 22nd June 1909 Mounsett, Tanfield mother Jane Robson formerly Smailes Father left blank.....she took Roberts surname but he was not her father....they split up and Jane met another man who she found out after she was pregnant that he was married....him I can trace!!! The I think Robert took her back in and brought up my Nanna (Bessie) as his own.

I also got a birth certificate for a Jane Ann Smailes born to William Smailes and Ann Nicholson, if they wer her parents it made them very old when she was born, on a census they are listed as her grandparents I believe that mary Smailes was Jane's mother as I found a baptism with that information on. I think as she was unmarried that the parents registered her as their own......if only I could go back in time,

hope this helps a bit.....or have i now got you all as confused as me???

Re the southern connection.....one of the witness's on their marriage certificate was a Hannah Southern!!