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I am trying to find the mother of Dorothy Francis. Dorothy was born in 1889/90. According to the 1891 census she was born in Worcester but the 1901 census shows Birmingham.

In 1891 aged 1 she was living with her grandparents George and Mary Dyer. In 1901 aged 11 she was still with Mary who had been widowed by then.

Dorothy married George Savage in 1918 and her marriage certificate shows her father was Jack Francis a commercial traveller.

George and Mary Dyer had 7 children, including Kate, Annie, Mary and Alice one of which may have been Dorothy's mother. I have been unable to find a birth registration for Dorothy.

Any help would be greatly appreciated..

Ann

Have you found a marriage for Jack Francis to any of the Dyer girls? Do you know if Dorothy had a middle name?

As far as I am aware, Dorothy did not have a middle name. I'm pretty sure I looked through marriages for Jack Francis but I haven't done for the Dyer girls - will do that.

Thanks a lot
Ann

I think I might have messed up my replies so here's an update.

I have the marriage certificate you mentioned and it is the right one. Dorothy was 28 at the time. There was no James Dyer in the family.

I have found various birth records for Dorothy Francis but none in an area which seemed likely. According to the 1891 and 1901 census she was living in Worcester.

Thanks for your help

Ann

I also have another fascinating one.


Dorothy Francis had a daughter, before she married George Savage. Her name on her birth certificate was Nellie Bessie Goodall born 15 June 1911. She was usually known as Betty or Bet but her marriage certificate shows her as Bessie Nellie.

On her birth certificate the father's name and occupation are blank. We know he was a Goodall, and the story goes that he was a chauffeur, so they were probably in service together.

One other piece of information on Dorothy Francis - she worked at a pub in Petty France called the Buckingham.

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks

Ann

I surpose you know that Jack is another name for John !!

The Dyer family 1871 Blockhouse Worcs
George 46y Baker / Grocer Cheltenham
Mary 45y Worcestershire
Mary E 23y "
George H 21y "
Kate 18y "
Alice 16y "
Alfred 11y "
Walter C 7y "
Annie 9y "
William 1y "

Do you know when Dorothy died ?

Who are the Witnesses on her Marriage cert ?

Mavis

Thank you Mavis.

I did know Jack was often used instead of John but I haven't really acted on it - to my shame!

I do have the 1871 census but somehow missed Walter.

Dorothy died September 1963.

Witnesses at her marriage to George Savage were George Young and Marion Young.

Ann

Thanks Nerine

I wondered whether her mother died in childbirth.

Mary Francis was shown as 40 in 1890 which could be right. I worked out 42 but I know we have to make allowances.

If only I could find Dorothy's birth registration.

Ann

I'm pretty sure Mary from Evesham is the one as the year is right and Evesham is in Worcestershire. The rest of the family listed are the right ones.

Thanks Nerine

John Smith Francis seems to be right. Born in Bromsgrove and married in Kings Norton which is part of Bromsgrove. This ties in with Mary Francis dying in Bromsgrove, as you said.

Brilliant - will try and get marriage certificate

Mary was a Mary E [Elizabeth or Ellen ?]
in 1871 / not with the family 1881

Mavis

What I really need to see is the 1881 census. In the meantime will get marriage certificate for John Smith Francis and see if that takes us anywhere.

I have seen her as Mary E in the 1871 census. Do you have access to the 1881 census? If so, could you please see if you can find Mary Francis with John/Jack Francis.

Thanks for your help

Ann

Hi,

I don't want to 'put a dampner' on things but I looked on another site and the marriage reference above - Edward Munro was not included on the page.

I looked at the image on FreeBmd for Edward and I believe it gives the reference as 604 NOT 601 !!

You still might want to take a chance and buy the cert but I don't think this is the one.

Have a look at the image before you send for the cert.

Dea x

Nerine

This is great - thank you. It must be the same Mary Dyer whose birth was registered in Evesham even though the age is out by 2/3 years. It's a shame Jack Francis isn't listed with her.

Are there any other ways of following her after 1881 as it looks very much as if she died, probably in childbirth, as she wasn't around when Dorothy was 1.

Dea

Sorry - don't think this relates to Mary Dyer

Nerine

Have found John Francis in the 1871 census in Kings Norton where his marriage was registered.

He was 18 at the time and it states he was born in Ombersley which is in Worcester. Haven't found him yet in the 1891 census.

Will look for other leads tomorrow hopefully

Ann

Thanks Nerine. George and Alice look right don't they. Mary Elizabeth also seems more like the right one as she was 4 in the 1851 census and listed as Mary E.

I do, however, wonder if the Mary Dyer shown in Warley Hall is the right one as she was shown as being from Evesham. She was listed as a domestic nurse and my husband has a picture of a lady in nurses uniform who he used to think was his grandmother but after your information we thought she was probably his greatgrandmother.

Alice's birth was also registered in Evesham.

Hi Nerine

It's been a while! I'll probably be rambling a bit here.

I applied for a marriage certificate for John Francis but apparently he wasn't married to a Mary. Have looked up marriages for the other Dyer girls to Francis but cannot find any. I do not now think the John Francis on the 1871 census was Dorothy's father after all as he is shown as a plate layer and Dorothy's father on her marriage certificate was a commercial traveller, although I suppose he could have changed occupation between ages 18 and 37.

Regarding Mary E Dyer's marriage to Richard Withers in 1888, I cannot find any matches on 1891 census. The last entry I can find is on the 1871 census.

Regarding marriage of George Henry shown in 1881, our George Henry born in 1850 was married to Elizabeth (1857 Bosbury, Hereford). Cannot find George Henry on 1891 census. In 1891 George senior is still married to Mary.


I still cannot find a birth rergistration for Dorothy Francis, born in 1890. In January 1904 she attended St George's Sunday School in Worcester.

Are you able to help any further please? My real goal is to find Dorothy's mother as Dorothy was my husband's grandmother.

Best wishes

Ann