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Dear All,

Am trying to locate the siblings of my grt grt granny- Edith Susan Morgan. There were 8 children in total.

The 2 eldest boys, John Morgan (born 1872) and Francis Morgan (1877) emigrated to Canada in their early 20s. Their niece knows that they all married and had offspring but can't remember names or dates anymore. She can remember though that John died aged 41- which would make 1913.

Neither John nor Francis (could be down as Frank) came back to the UK. Both boys were born in Chirbury (registration district Forden) in Shropshire.

Would anyone be able to give me any ideas as to how to track them down?

Many Thanks
Claire
xxx

Name: John Morgan
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Francis
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Chirbury, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Chirbury
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street address: Blackford
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Forden
Sub registration district: Chirbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Morgan 2
Ann Morgan 33
Francis Morgan 36
Francis Morgan 4
John Morgan 9
Samuel Morgan 5
Sarah A. Morgan 7

Don't know if you have the names of the siblings but here are the family in 1881.

Ruth

Thank you so much for these Lynne and Gladys

Sorry not to reply sooner- have been giving blood :)

Gladys that is the right family- there were 8 children in total- my grt grt granny was number 5. The 2 boys were older. Actually, looking again at that census she can't have been as there were 5 children already. I guess one may have died.

The marriage bettwen Francis and Elizabeth certainly looks likely on the 1901 census as, according to FreeBMD, there was only one Francis Morgan born in Chirbury in 1877- and the census does seem to spell it Churbury alot.

I have no idea what to say about the 1911 census -other than thank you for trying so hard. Inexplicable the different birth mother's names as the 2 girls are in the same family set up.

1905 would fit in very much with what my Auntie Lucy remembers being told by her Mum. (She's not doing bad for 88!)

Hopefully I can build on some of the new information.


Many Thanks
Claire
xxx

This would also fit:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gibson Lucy Derby 7b 656
Morgan Francis Derby 7b 656
Nevin William Derby 7b 656
Perrin Elizabeth Maud Derby 7b 656


and pos birth of Jane

OND 1900
Morgan Jane W. Derby 8b 452

and pos birth of Francis
AMJ 1902
MORGAN Francis W. Derby 8b 672

Claire
xxx

You could try looking for them on the 1911 census, and depending on when they immigrated (which is on the census), maybe the 1906 (which only covered 3 provinces - AB, SK, MB) if they're out west.
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/index.html

You could also check for their WW1 attestation papers in case they served:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/index-e.html

Hi mgnv,

I certainly will check now. The other census seems to indicate Ontario for Francis- unsure if John went out at the same time and to the same place as him or they went out individually.

I couldn't find them on the WW1 site- John was dead by about 1913.

Thanks very much for the suggestion though. I haven't looked at the Canada resouces before now and always go for the ancestry.co.uk sub.

Claire
xxx

Could John have emigrated as early as 1889?
There's one on the 1911 Canadian census, also in Toronto.

Morgan John M Head M Sep 1871 39
Morgan Elizabeth F Wife M Dec 1870 40
Morgan Frank M Son S Jan 1891 19
Morgan Edith F Daughter S Apr 1897 14
Morgan Ethel F Daughter S May 1900 11

The original says that John & wife were both born England and emigrated 1889, children born Ontario.

Here they are on the Canadian 1901 census in Toronto:

Morgan John M Head M Sep 9 1870 30

Morgan Elizabeth F Wife M Dec 24 1867 33

Morgan Francis M Son S Jan 27 1892 9

Morgan Jane A F Daughter S Apr 24 1896 4

Morgan Edith M F Daughter S Apr 5 1898 2

Morgan Ethel M F Daughter S May 12 1900 1

Proof page says John & Elizabeth born England and emigrated 189? (can't see last number). Children born Ontario.

Claire

I think the births for Francis' two girls may have the same mother, based on English accent and being spoken fast. And since they only came over the year before, the accent would still be strong. So that would make the 1911 census the correct one.

Elizabeth Maud Perrin
Elizabeth McFerren

Without seeing the original, could the second entry really have been: Elizabeth M. Perrin. I have an ancestor with the last name of Vaus and it is always getting read as Vans. The two names above are so similar that it could be an error in reading.

Be careful with the census. Most of my ancestors' years of birth are incorrect on the Canadian census.

With a common surname, it probably won't help, but this site has some Ontario burials (the site is currently down):
http://www.islandnet.com/ocfa/

A few of my ancestor's records were found here, perhaps you could try looking as well:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0

Thank you all so much.

Sorry to be so late posting back.

Margaret- I haven't made a note of John being in the country after his birth in 1879 when I made my notes on the census returns (before I knew that the brothers emigrated and the ancestry sub ran out!)

Francis was definitely in the UK until the 1901 census when he is down as married to Elizabeth Maud who was born 1881 in Cambridgeshire.

Thank you very much for the possible John Morgan you have uncovered- I do appreciate it as his christian name and surname must be very common.

I agree with both Margaret and Lisa- my surname is mis-spelt in the UK now and registered incorrectly on documents even from the 1960s- my Dad blames it on the Shropshire lilt- so I can see why the surname could have been written down incorrectly- as to read them phonetically they don't seem all that far apart.

Lisa- thank you ever so much for the website suggestion. I thought that this might be my best way to track John (given his common name) as at least I have a death to go on. I know that when I was helped to find some Aussie Records they listed next of kin etc.

Regardless of the outcome, am really appreciative of all the help today

Thank you
Claire
xxx

Lisa,

That second website is incredible!

Within 30 seconds I have found the death entry for John Morgan! Correct parents.

Name: John Morgan
Titles:
Death date: 29 Dec 1916
Estimated death year:
Age at death: 46 years
Death place: York, York, Ontario
Birth date: 1870
Estimated birth year: 1870
Birth place: England
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Race or color (expanded):
Race:
Ethnicity:
Spouse name:
Spouse titles:
Father name: Francis Morgan
Father titles:
Mother name: Ann Swain
Mother titles:
GSU film number: 1862469
Digital GS number: 4035906
Image number: 1151
Reference number: p 670 cn 039705
Collection: Ontario Deaths 1869-1947

Fantastic!

Thank you ever so much
Claire
xxx

Claire, I only learned of the site's newest search option from another GR member. I'm so happy it helped you as well. :)

I believe another GR member has access to Canadian Ancestry and you might be able to find out the cause of death for John. The death record might state where he was living and nearest relative.

You may be able to find some vital records on this site (however, most of my rellies/ancestors are not listed):
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onvsr/

Hi Lisa,

That would be great. I tried the same search facility for a marriage for John, but I wouldn't really know where to start- and no John with the correct parents was listed- what a great site!

I also found this as well:

Name: Vivian Maud Morgan
Titles:
Death date: 17 Apr 1911
Estimated death year:
Age at death: 7 years 2 months
Death place: Toronto, York, Ontario
Birth date: 17 Feb 1904
Estimated birth year:
Birth place: England
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Race or color (expanded):
Race:
Ethnicity:
Spouse name:
Spouse titles:
Father name: Francis Morgan
Father titles:
Mother name: Elizabeth Maud Perrin
Mother titles:
GSU film number: 1854633
Digital GS number: 4175899
Image number: 1155
Reference number: yr 1911 cn 2980
Collection: Ontario Deaths 1869-1947

What a bonus!

Claire
xxx

Claire,

If you know the rough area of where they were, see if there is a local tourist and general info. website, a lot of Canadian areas or townships have their own. I posted on one for the area I knew I had some rellies - and up they popped, having read my posting on the 'letters' page.
Good luck
Eileen
birth name

Dear Eileen,

Thank you ever so much for your suggestion- am open to all options as would be lovely to see who may still be around :)

Claire