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Wow, that's amazing - Florence Clemance was my dad's mum so definitely the right family.

Thank you so much. Will try to get the marriage records etc and keep you posted.

Once again, thank you so much

Jenny xx

Same family in 1901.....Clemance on image.

1901 England Census
about James C Lamance
Name: James C Lamance
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Ipswich, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Harwick St Nicholas
Ecclesiastical parish: Harwick St Nicholas
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address: 1 Westbury Cottage, Talbot Road.

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Tendring
Sub registration district: Harwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 273
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Lamance 8
Ellen Lamance 40
Florence Lamance 1
George Lamance 5
James Lamance 12
James C Lamance 44..Mariner Railway Service?..Ipswich. Suffolk.
Joseph Lamance 14
William Lamance 13

All others born in Harwich.

You are very welcome ;)...but I hope this is the right family.


This is the same family in 1891, but they had 2 children older than Joseph.


Do you have the marriage certificate for the child that is your grandparent and, if so, does the occupation given for his/her father, James, match with Steamship Stoker?


1891 England Census
about Ellen Clemance
Name: Ellen Clemance
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James
Gender: Female
Where born: Harwich, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Harwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address: Myrtle Cottages

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Tendring
Sub registration district: Harwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Clemance 31
Gertrude Clemance 10
James Clemance 35..Steamship Stoker...Ipswich, Suffolk
James Clemance 8/12
John Clemance 8
Joseph Clemance 5
William Clemance 2

All others are listed as born in Harwich....but I think Gertrude was born in Ipswich.

I also think that she was a twin.


Susan Clements on the 1881 census was only 9 days old. I couldn't find a birth for a Susan...so thought they had perhaps changed their minds on the name and registered her as Gertrude.


Then I found these births....


Births Jun 1881 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CLEMANCE Ellen Rebecca S Ipswich 4a 744
CLENANCE Gertrude Alice Ipswich 4a 744


Perhaps Susan was Ellen Rebecca S ?



Also this death...


Deaths Mar 1882 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clemance Ellen Rebecca S 1 Ipswich 4a 472


So she died aged only 1yr.



This Gertrude was registered as CleNance, not CleMance...but that may have been an error when the original registers were typed up.


Unfortunately, I think the only way to check for sure would be to buy both birth certificates, unless someone has access to parish records for Ipswich and can find their baptisms for you.

Ellen and James were my great grandparents and I'm sure their first born was Joseph in 1887, so pretty sure Susan was someone else's daughter. You are such a star giving me all this help - I got very stuck and had no idea that daughter or son-in-law meant stepdaughter/son - it all makes sense now, so thank you from the bottom of my heart. Will have to go to the parish records to try to solve the mystery of Susan - maybe James and Ellen DID have a daughter we knew nothing about. If I ever find out I'll let you know.

Once again, thank you
Jenny

1881 England Census
about Joseph Tuck
Name: Joseph Tuck
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ipswich, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Ipswich St Margaret
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address: 14 Kemball St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Labourer

Registration district: Ipswich
Sub registration district: St Margaret
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Clements 21..daughter-in-law..Harwich, Essex..(married to James)
James Clements 25..son-in-law (meaning stepson..child of Hannah and John Clements).
Joseph Clements 31..(21)..son-in-law (stepson..child of Hannah and John Clements)
Sarah Clements 18..daughter-in-law (stepdaughter..child of Hannah and John Clements)
Susan Clements..granddaughter..child of Ellen and James Clements?
Hannah Tuck 51..wife
Harriett E. Tuck 14..daughter..(child of Hannah and Joseph Tuck).
Joseph Tuck 42..Head

This is the only death for a John Clements, in the Ipswich area, between 1861 and Jun 1865.


Deaths Sep 1864 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clements John Ipswich 4a 374


If this is the correct John, then William, James, Joseph and Sarah are most likely his children.

The surname should be Tuck not Luck...the 1871 census has been mistranscribed.


This is most likely Hannah's second marriage, even though her name is missing.


Marriages Jun 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maulden Robert James Ipswich 4a 922
Sporle Charlotte Ipswich 4a 922
>>>>Tuck Joseph John Ipswich 4a 922


As the marriage took place in 1865, any children born after that date will be Tucks....so Harriet should be Tuck on the 1871 census, not Clemence.


Her birth reg.....


Births Mar 1867 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tuck Harriet Elizabeth Ipswich 4a 641

Oh my life - you guys are absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much. Have another slight query though. It now looks from all your info that Hannah (Green) married John Clemence.
By 1861 they had 3 children, James, Joseph and William. However, the 1871 census shows Joseph's father as Joseph J. This is where I got confused. Subsequent census results show other children with varying surnames of Clemence and Luck. I'm in a right pickle :) Think that we can conclude Hannah married John Clemence then Joseph Luck but not sure of the paternity of the children because of the difference in surnames through time. Any ideas???

Thanks so much

Jenny xx

John in 1841????


1841 England Census
about John Clemence
Name: John Clemence
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Gender: Male
Where born: Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Wetheringsett
Hundred: Hartismere
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Hartismere
Sub registration district: Mendlesham
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Caroline Clemence 1
Elizabeth Clemence 20
John Clemence 55.. Carpenter
John Clemence 16
Mariann Clemence 20

John in 1851????

1851 England Census
about John Clements
Name: John Clements
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Gender: Male
Where born: Wetheringsett, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Ipswich St Peter
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: Hostler

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Ipswich
Sub registration district: St Matthedw
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members: Name Age
John Clements 26
Sarah A Harrison 27
Ann Roberts 47
Clement Roberts 8
Ellen W Roberts 17
Emily Roberts 10
James Roberts 15
Susannah Roberts 5

Hannah in 1841???......Civil Parish Naughton.

1841 England Census
about Hannah Green
Name: Hannah Green
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Gender: Female
Where born: Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Naughton
Hundred: Cosford
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Cosford
Sub registration district: Hadleigh
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Hannah Green 14
James Green 50.. Ag Lab
Robert Green 20
Sarah Green 50
Susan Green 9

Hannah in 1851????

1851 England Census
about Hannah Green
Name: Hannah Green
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Norton, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Ipswich St Peter
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Ipswich
Sub registration district: St Matthedw
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 46
Household Members: Name Age
Hannah Green 24
James Kavan 30
Caroline Middleditch 20
Deborah Middleditch 62
Thomas Middleditch 56

Possible marriage???

Marriages Jun 1851 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Allen William Ipswich 12 510
>>>Clements John Ipswich 12 510
>>>Green Hannah Ipswich 12 510
Hill Alfred Ipswich 12 510
Last Sarah Ipswich 12 510
Sharman William Ipswich 12 510
Wright Louisa Ipswich 12 510

Possible husband for Hannah?

1861 England Census
about John Clements
Name: John Clements
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Wetheringsett, Suffolk, England

Civil Parish: Ipswich St Peter
Town: Ipswich
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address: Sea Horse Inn

Occupation: Ostler

Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Ipswich
Sub registration district: St Matthew
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 131
Household Members: Name Age
John Clements 35
Hannah Rummeles 16
George Staff 12
William Turner 18
Ann Worby 51
David Worby 56
David Worby 23
John Hy Worby 17
Louisa Worby 20

????????

William Clemence

Christening: 01 MAY 1853 St Margarets, Ipswich, Suffolk, England


Parents:
Father: John Clemence
Mother: Hannah

1871

Name: Joseph Clemence
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph J
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ipswich, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Ipswich St Clement
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
Town: Ipswich
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Registration district: Ipswich
Sub registration district: St Clement
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 73
Household Members: Name Age
Harriett Clemence 4
James Clemence 15
Joseph Clemence 11
Sarah Clemence 8
William Clemence 18
Hannah Luck 43
Joseph J Luck 36
William C Luck 18

The marriage cert for Hannah and Joseph should have Hannah's maiden name (her father should be named) which would enable you to look for her first marriage....thus finding out Mr Clemence's first name.........

For info. is this Hannah in 1861?

1861 England Census
about Hannah Clemance
Name: Hannah Clemance
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Haughton, Suffolk, England ...Place name looks more like Naughton?

Civil Parish: Ipswich St Nicholas
Town: Ipswich
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Ipswich
Sub registration district: St Matthew
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 18
Household Members: Name Age
Hannah Clemance 33
James Clemance 5
Joseph Clemance 1
William Clemance 8

Children all born in Ipswich

Can anyone shed any light on my paternal ancestors please? I have traced this family back to the 1861 census where Hannah is shown as an Ostler's wife yet there is no sign of her husband. Desperate to trace them back further if possible.

thanks a lot

Jenny