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My uncle is looking into the Thomas connection to see if his other children's spouses / descendants match up with our family history.

I think my money would be on this being Alfred's father's marriage:


Marriages Mar 1857
Bourne Thomas Alfred St Geo Hanover Sq 1a 301
Hill Mary Ann St Geo Hanover Sq 1a 301
Wells Joseph William St Geo Hanover Sq 1a 301

-- problem being there's a bride missing from the list.

There doesn't seem to be a mistranscribed Mary from volume 1a or page 301 in St Geo Hanover Sq that quarter (the registration district would be in italics in the results list to indicate that the number didn't match the district, probably). So we might guess that Ms. Hill is the bride. The certificate would of course be needed.


But I can't find that couple in 1861 or 1871.

So Barbara -- you think the household in my last post is the one then? Can't tell whether you saw it ...

Alfred and Amelia Married November 4th 1900

His age 25, Her age 23.

My Uncle Albert, their grandson, had the original marriage certificate before passing it onto my sister.

We are resigned to the fact that maybe Richard was a middle name. until we find Alfred's birth cert.

It seems that Alfred didn't remember his father's name -- unless he went by a middle name, e.g.

1881

Name: Thomas Bourne
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Stepney, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Paul Shadwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 48&9 South Block Peabody Square
Condition as to marriage: Married
>>> Occupation: Dely Foreman Dock (abbrev. for delivery?)

Registration district: Stepney
Sub registration district: Shadwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 3

>>> Alfred Bourne 3
George Bourne 15
Henry Bourne 7
John Bourne 19
Mary Bourne 48
Mary Bourne 12
Richard Bourne 10
Rosina Bourne 1
Thomas Bourne 46
Thomas Bourne 21


I think that's them!

That was a red herring it seems. This is likely the household in 1891 -- eldest son Richard was born in St Georges:


Name: Alfred Bourne
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Shadwell, London, England

Civil Parish: Shadwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Shadwell
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Stepney
Sub registration district: Shadwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 4

Alfred Bourne 13
George F Bourne 25
Henry J Bourne 16
Mary Bourne 58
Richard Bourne 19
Rosina Bourne 10

1881. Another coincidence?


Name: Richard Bourne
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: St Lukes, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 16 Ernest St

Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Shoe Maker

Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub registration district: Mile End Old Town, Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 16

>>> Esther Betts 43
Frederick W. Bourne 4
Henry Bourne 16
Martha Bourne 43
Richard Bourne 44
Richard J. Bourne 6
William E. Bourne 2

Barbara, could you just spell it out?

*When* did they marry?? Is the marriage up top of the thread the correct one?

We can only search for marriages (and births and deaths) by registration district. Is St Peter's London Docks in St George in the East district? The certificate should state the district.

If we'd known in the first place that Richard was a dock foreman (i.e. in London), probably less time would have been spent on a Richard who was a gamekeeper in Hampshire -- although he could have moved to the city.

And what was Alfred's own occupation on the marriage certificate? Anything resembling a horse groom?

That would be a coincidental Amelia Betts and Alfred Bourne in the 1901 census if it weren't him!

Thanks everyone ,

I have seen Alfred's marriage cert (my sister has the original, I have a photocopy ) but haven't found a birth cert with Richard named as Father.

Alfred's marriage took place at St Peter's London Docks. Father Richard listed as Dock Foreman.

I have reason believe that they were all born East London, Middlesex, nearly everyone else in my tree was born there.

Now shall we let Barbara have the pleasure of finding the birth and parents' marriage at

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

?

I searched for the birth 1870-1876. There are two. Clicking on the district name to get the list of place names will tell you which one was born in Nursling.

We all have to stop meeting like this ... ;)

Ostler is a horsey occupation. The image says Ostler with Groom written beside, as the census classification.

The image says "S in law", of course. Ancestry has no sense. It does show Amelia as single, though.

The place of birth is implied St George in the East, I'd imagine. All lines under the head of household are blank.

But given the oddness of Amelia being shown under her former surname and as single, I wouldn't be on the assumption being accurate for Alfred. ;)

Barbara

I presume these are the people in question.


1901 England Census
about Alfred Bourne
Name: Alfred Bourne
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Sister-in-law

Civil Parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St George in the East
Sub registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Amelia Betts 23
Jane Betts 53
Mary Betts 19
Alfred Bourne 25
Hannah Bye 68


It say's Sister-in-Law and should be Son-in-Law.
Unfortunately there is no place of birth against any of these people other than Jane Betts.

What was the occupation of Richard (father) on the marriage certificate??


Victor

1891 England Census
about Alfred E Bourne
Name: Alfred E Bourne
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Nursling, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Lytchett Minster
Ecclesiastical parish: Lytchett Minster
Town: Lytchett Minster
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Poole
Sub registration district: Lytchett
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred E Bourne 17
Clara Bourne 6
Emily Bourne 12
Emma Bourne 56
Richard Bourne 60 >>>>born Nursling, Hampshire, England >>> Gamekeeper
Richard Bourne 15

1881 England Census
about Alfred Bourne
Name: Alfred Bourne
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Nursling, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Lytchett Minster
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England

Street address: Post Green Keepers Lodge
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Poole
Sub registration district: Lytchett
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Bourne 7
Elizabeth Bourne 14
Emily Bourne 2
Emma Bourne 46
Frederick Bourne 11
Richard Bourne 49 >>>> Gamekeeper
Richard Bourne 5

1901 England Census
about Alfred Bourne
Name: Alfred Bourne
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Sister-in-law

Civil Parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: >>>>>>Ostler?

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: St George in the East
Sub registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 249
Household Members: Name Age
Amelia Betts 23
Jane Betts 53
Mary Betts 19
Alfred Bourne 25
Hannah Bye 68

Is this the right marriage?

Marriages Dec 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Betts Amelia St. Geo. East 1c 568
Bourne Alfred St. Geo. East 1c 568
Campain Hannah St. Geo. East 1c 568
Jacobs Horace St Geo East 1c 568



Have you found him in 1901 census?

Just wondering where Alfred was born



Occupations of Alfred and Richard would be useful

Trying to find Father/Mother of Alfred Bourne c1876 married Amelia Betts. Richard Bourne is listed as Alfred's Father on their marriage certificate but there is no trace of him in UK.

Any info would be greatly appreciated as my sister and uncles (grandsons of Alfred) would also love to find out about their heritage.