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1841 do these fit anywhere?
living in Twickenham

Edwin Auger 9 Mo
Emma Auger 9 Mo
Lucy Auger 35
Lucy Auger 13
Richard Auger 4
William Auger 30
William Auger 8

Just a point that is probably totally by the by

She was probably a BOOK binder, rather than a Boot binder

Hi

Thanks. I have looked and it says Freeman and I have verified that for the 1851 census as they were at Margaret Place.

If I could find Clara in 1841 with Emma, that would be great.

Emma was at 3 Union Bldgs, Shoreditch in Oct 1840 and at Seymour Place, Clerkenwell in May 1843.

Ben

Hello Benjamin,
Have you attempted to find out if any "Bastardy Bonds" were issued to support the illegitimate children or checked through the "Poor Relief" documents for the area? This may be one avenue to explore.

Herbert

Hi

Yes a bootbinder must have worked from home, so I think she made boots at home to earn money and look after her children.

I am in the opinion that Emma was Clara's mother. So I think I could be looking to Emma as a direct ancestor. The middle name is a good clue, as is their absence in 1841. I think Emma gave Clara a better life by farming her out to her sister when she wed in 1845.

Ben

Hi Ben,

I think there may have been a plan to make a better life for Clara, to make sure she was married off to a better situation, as for her Father I don't think this will be reveiled, you can at least continue with your tree working with what you have, knowing - Clara is a Daughter or Granddaughter.


You have to give credit to Emma - raising children and a handicap child at that and still able to work and support them even if they did live in poor conditions. then if I read the thread correctly - later in life took on her neice Jane.

Hope something crops up to help solve this for you

Good luck.............Lois

Hi Lois

I think that Clara was farmed out in about 1845 when Elizabeth got married and the relationship to her in 1851 is not conclusive though. Maybe a bond formed between Elizabeth and Clara. Clara probably never saw the census so she didnt know how she was placed.

Emma gave birth to a handicapped child in 1843. He had spinal deformities from infancy and in 1861 aged 17 was blind. His death cert explains his disabilities. Emma lived just round the corner from Matthew Coombs in 1843 in the same street.

Emma was a bootbinder in 1851. I wonder if she had Clara farmed out to Matthew and Elizabeth for her benefit as Emma probably lived in poor conditions with 3 children so farmed the eldest out to ease the pressure, and so Clara wouldnt have to help bring up a disabled child, as that probably was not fair on her.

Ben

Hi Ben,

I have read through your thread and what an
Interesting twist you have with Clara. I really don't envy you with this one.

I was wondering what Clara's death cert may reveil as to parents?

Also a long shot I know as Wills are not common for the common people - maybe one of the older generation had a Will that may uncover their real children - leaving Clara out of the Will would eliminate her as a Daughter.

For what it is worth I am swayed to Clara as a grandchild - Emma as the mother and as the sister Elizabeth had young children, Clara at age 15 would have been useful as a servent/companion to Elizabeth while husband Matthew Coombs may have been working away on occasions with his occupation.

Strange Clare is on the 1851 census as a Daughter for Elizabeth this does through things in a different direction - Elizabeth may have had a hand in raising Clara and had an attachment to her.

Allthough - as you say fibbs have been told on birth certs so why not on census and Clara would not be aware of how she was placed on the census, this could have been to save face in front of Elizabeth and Matthew's neighbours, Matthew being a respectable business man.

But with Clara's marriage - the baptism father - Clara gave this information, whether she believed it or not and maybe her death cert follows the same pattern but if she insists the grandparents are her parents then you only jump one generation for your tree

Sorry, this is a difficult for you, this is only my oppinion, not my experience talking here.

Best of luck,............Lois

Yes it does sound a bit tricky if evidence points to both. I would plump for Emma myself. Clara's middle name is a hint.

Any further opinions welcome.

Ben

Hi Ben

See what you mean Elizabeth was with parents in 1841 census but no Emma or Clara!

One piece of info points to Emma as being the mother and then another to Elizabeth....unfortunately it looks as if this may remain a mystery with no concrete proof either way!

Catherine

Hi Catherine.

I did think that. From what you say, it does seem as if she was an illegitimate grandchild.

But, out of the two, with the evidence I have posted which do you think was Clara's mother? Emma b 1813 or Elizabeth b1818? Why was Clara given Emma as a middle name though? Why is Clara and Emma missing from 1841 census?

Any ideas?

Would Clara have gone to live with Elizabeth once Matthew Coombs wed Elizabeth in 1845 if she was with them in 1851?

After 1856 when Clara married, she did live near Elizabeth Coombs nee Auber once she wed Matthew Coombs brother William.

Ben

Hi Ben

Unfortunately, in those days with no birth control girls could and did get pregnant at a very young age and I have seen children born to mothers a lot younger than seventeen! Often the child was christened with the grandparents named as the parents.

Catherine

Hi Catherine.

I know there was another child, Elizabeth the younger born in 1818 but I had dismissed her as she'd have only been 17 if she had an illegitimate child. I was under the impression that maybe Emma farmed her out. I wondered that when Elizabeth Jnr wed, Emma farmed her out to her if she had originally had custody of her.

Ben

Looking at the 1851 census for Elizabeth & Matthew Coombs, Clara (aged 15yrs) is listed as daughter. If I'm looking at the right return doesn't this mean that Clara is Elizabeth's daughter?

Marriages Sep 1845
AUBER Elizabeth Kensington 3 303
COOMBS Matthew George Kensington 3 303


1851 census
Name: Clara Coombs
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Mathew G
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England

Civil Parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 76
Household Members:
Name Age
Clara Coombs 15
Elizabeth Coombs 34
George Coombs 10
John Coombs 4
Joseph Coombs 3
Mathew G Coombs 39 occ Music Printer Journeyman
Walter Coombs 3 Mo

Hi

The certs definately tell lies as I have checked. Also, Emma registered her mum's death in 1858 in Shoreditch.

Emma was born in 1813 to John and Elizabeth Auber. By 1871 Emma was living with Joseph Stevens and Jane Auber, who was described as a niece on the census, and was the daughter of John George Auber born in 1827.

This proves the Emma Auber born in 1813 was the same one who bore those baseborn children in the 1840s.

But who was Clara's mother? Emma b1813 or Elizabeth b1784?

Ben

If their father was named, why do you think they were base born?

Hi. This may have been asked before but I shall explain the evidence that I have in fuller detail now as this is making me tear my hair out lol.

My 3xgreat grandmother Clara Emma Auber was born in Dec 1835 in Shoreditch. She was the last child of 11 children, born inbetween 1806 and 1835. The penultimate child John George Auber was born in 1827, baptised June, just over 8 years before Clara's birth.

Clara was baptised as John & Elizabeth's daughter on 24 April 1836 in Shoreditch. When she wed in 1856, she put her father down as John Auber. Even though the baptism is probably the most likely proof, I am still a bit suspicious if she may have been an illegitimate grandchild.

Here is a small few pointers for any more suggestions.

Clara Emma Auber was born in Dec 1835.

Her elder sister Emma was 22 at the time.

The mother, Elizabeth had 10 children, the previous one 8 years before in 1827.

But, Clara was given Emma as a middle name, which was her elder sisters first name.

Clara and Emma are both not with the rest of the Auber family in the 1841 census at 3 Crown Court, Shoreditch. I cannot find them but they could be together with baby Edwin.

Emma had 3 illegitimate children Edwin in 1840, George 1843 and Matilda in 1850. She told a few fibs on all the birth certs. She even used her mums maiden name for Matildas birth, and said "Auber formerly Auber" for the middle one and "Auber formely Obey" for the first one. The first two's inventive father was Joseph Auber a carpenter, and Matilda's birth said Henry Auber a carpenter so obviously a few blatant lies.

The 1843 child was a handicapped child. Clara would have been 7 at the time.

In 1851, Clara is living with Emma's sister Elizabeth Coombs, nee Auber and her hubby Matthew a printer.

In 1851 Emma is living as a bootbinder with 3 baseborn children in poor conditions.

Which do you think is more likely? John and Elizabeth as parents or was Clara actually Emma's illegitimate child? Emma having 3 more makes me wonder.

Any further pointers as this is a puzzler for me?

Ben