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Hey Catherine,

Thanks for this additional info, I'll need to do some more digging.

Regards
Adam Price

Probable death for Caroline:-

Caroline Elizabeth Price abt 1800 1878 Oct-Nov-Dec Brentford Middlesex

Children of Joseph and Caroline Elizabeth:-

Birth/Christening, 1821 - 1841, London Greater, England, British Isles
Father: Joseph Price,
Mother: Caroline Elizabeth
Mary Ann Price - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 06 DEC 1823 S Giles'S, Cripplegate, London, England
Mary Ann Price - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 27 JUL 1827 London, London, England
Sarah Elizabeth Price - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 06 DEC 1823 S Giles'S, Cripplegate, London, England
Sarah Elizabeth Price - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 27 JUL 1827 London, London, England
Caroline Elizabeth Price - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 18 MAR 1831 Clerkenwell, London, England

(note twin girls Mary Ann and Sarah Elizabeth.)

IF

the 1851 census is correct then this is certainly Joseph in 1861:-

1861
Caroline Eliza Price abt 1801 Islington Wife Shoreditch, Middlesex
Joseph Price abt 1794 St Brides Fleet Street Head Shoreditch, Middlesex
Living:- 5 Goldsmiths Alms House

Name: Joseph Price
Age: 67 Estimated
Birth Year: abt 1794
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: St Brides Fleet Street
Civil Parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: Haggerston St Mary
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Don't know if this is your Joseph but I'm sending it anyway just in case. It's the only Joseph Price I can find that is a Jeweller. The census record is a bit hard to make out and it's a shame the families names are only in initials but it's worth putting in your files.

1851

C E Price abt 1831 Clerkll, Middlesex, England Daughter Clerkenwell, Middlesex
E Price abt 1824 Cripplegate, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell, Middlesex
H Price abt 1845 Clerkll, Middlesex, England Daughter Clerkenwell, Middlesex
J Price abt 1840 Clerkll, Middlesex, England Son Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Joseph Price abt 1794 St Brides, London, England Head Clerkenwell, Middlesex
S Price abt 1778 Clerkll, Middlesex, England Son Clerkenwell, Middlesex
S E Price abt 1801 Islington, Middlesex, England Wife Clerkenwell, Middlesex

Lula Berrant abt 1827 Seissond, France Lodger Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Curran Maller abt 1823 Hannover Lodger Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Bartholomeus Ward abt 1805 Hackney, Middlesex, England Lodger Clerkenwell, Middlesex
(Goldsmith and Jeweller)

Name: Joseph Price
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1794
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: S E
Gender: Male
Where born: St Brides, London, England
Civil Parish: Clerkenwell
Address: 19 Red Lion Street
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Occupation: Gold and Silver Manufacturer –( then it looks like) of Jewellery

This may, or may not, be your Joseph Price but it's worth keeping on file just in case.

U.K. and U.S. Directories, 1680-1830
about Joseph Price
Name: Joseph Price
Dates: 1776-1800
Location: London
Occupation: gold beater jewellery/precious metals(a)
Gender: Male
Address:

Address(Es): 14, Warwick Lane, London
Occupation:

Occupation(s): gold beater, jewellery/precious metals(a)
Source Date: 1790
Source Info:

Listed in Wakefield's Merchant and Tradesman's General Directory for London, [1790], WAKEFIELD. London



Name: Joseph Price
Dates: 1776-1800
Location: London
Occupation: gold beater jewellery/precious metals(p)
Gender: Male
Address:

Address(Es): No.14, Warwick Lane, Newgate Street, London
Occupation:

Occupation(s): gold beater, jewellery/precious metals(p)
Source Date: 1789
Source Info:

Listed in Andrews's New London Directory, (for the year 1789) ... [2nd edition], 1789, ANDREWS, J.. London
Printed and sold by J. Andrews and Son, Printers in General, No. 10, Little-Eastcheap, near the Monument

He could may well have been both. Spies often had jobs where they travelled as it was good cover. Keep a bit of romance in your tree, it's a good story to hand down.
You need to try and find him in the census records now you know that he was still alive at the time of the marriage of his son William Jnr.

Regards
Catherine
Paris, France
but born in Middlesbrough, England

I have also wondered if they waited until until Elizabeth turned 18, because from an age given on a census she was born c:1832 in Cambridge which would make her 18 in 1850.

William Jr's death cert names his father as diamond merchant. His marriage cert as a Foreign Agent (does not state deceased) so it's also possible he died overseas. (I think he was a jewellers agent not a spy) But how good would that be: to have a 007 in your history.

I don't know what other confirmation I was looking for now, perhaps someone with my Prices in their tree. There are not several William Prices born to William Price and Elizabeth Morris I need to choose between.

Thank you Catherine for your replies and insight.
I apologise to any that thought I was wasting their time.

Regards
Adam Price
Adelaide South Australia

I think the change of addresses is quite understandable. It would seem from all the info, that Elizabeth did fall pregnant before she married so she may have been sent to stay with a relative while she had the baby, then returned home to marry and, to avoid gossip or the scandal, moved to a new address with her husband and son.
There are lots of possibilites for the moves, but I don't think that you will ever get the true story now.
I think it would still be interesting to obtain a copy of William Jnr.'s marriage certificate to see if his father is noted as deceased or not.
Anyway hope this has helped in your research.
Regards
Catherine

I have these certificates.
The birth cert of William Henry Price on 18 nov 1849 at Wansted (he added Morris on his marriage cert) names his parents as William Henry Price and Elizabeth Price formerly Morris. Fathers occupation as Jeweller, and residence as Wansted.

The marriage cert of William Snr and Elizabeth Morris on 7 may 1850 at St Andrew Holborn London Middlesex only has both ages as full, occupation as agent residing at Hatton Garden. His fathers name as Joseph also a Jeweller.

I think the Barrington link is also valid as the 1871 census shows my great grandparents William Jr, Martha Angliss and daughter Elizabeth living next door to Elizabeth and James Barrington with some younger children named in the 1861 census.
I do think that is where William Jr learned his trade.

The questions I have with this info are:
Did they get married six months after William Jrs birth? and
the three different addresses in three years, the birth at Wansted, the marriage at Hatton Garden, and the 1851census.

Regards
Adam Price

Marriage for:-

Marriages Jun 1850
Price William Henry London W 2 270
Morris Elizabeth W London 2 270

So I would read this as:-
Elizabeth Morris and William Henry Price had a son William Henry Morris Price.
They married in 1850.
Either the marriage did not work and they divorced or William Henry died. There are quite a few possible death records for William Henry Price (husband) but as in 1851 he was not at home he could have travelled with his job and so it would not be easy to pin one down to say it is him with certainty. As Elizabeth remarried in 1852 that would limit the research, always keeping in mind that he may not have died.
Elizabeth remarried in 1852 and her new husband took William in and taught him his trade ie: Bookbinding.

What you need to do to confirm all this is to buy the marriage certificate of William Henry Price (son). On this it should have the name of his father (even if deceased). It should also show his address at time of marriage, this you can check against the address on the 1871 census to see if it matches. There should also be names of witnesses and hopefully he chose one of his stepbrothers or even his stepfather.

I would be interested to know exactly what is on the certificate, and also the marriage certificate above which will give you William Henry Price's age and other details that could help trace him in other census records in the case that the couple divorced.
Regards
Catherine

I wouldn't dismiss the 1861 census at all. For several reasons!!!

James Thomas Barrington did marry Elizabeth Price.

In 1861 census it is noted that she was from Cambridgeshire.
Although the birth date of William H.Price is noted as 1845 (5yrs. out) Elizabeth's date of birth is also (5yrs. out). I've had peoples date of birth change from one census to another, either because they lied about their age or it was just written down incorrectly, and, in 1871 census her age is noted as 1829 so that fits.

The William Henry Price that Adam is looking for was a "Printer and Bookbinder" It seems a bit of a coincidence to me that Elizabeth's new husband, James Thomas Barrington, was also a "Bookbinder" not the commonest occupation.

In 1871 the Barrington family were living:-
Address: 35 Auckland Street

1871
Name: Elizabeth Barrington
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James T
Gender: Female
Where born: Cambridgeshire, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Address: 35 Auckland Street

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Household schedule number: 423
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur M Barrington 3
Caroline E Barrington 12
Elizabeth Barrington 42
James R Barrington 16
James T Barrington 36
John Barrington 1
Sarah E Barrington 14
Thomas Barrington 8

In the 1871 census William Henry Price is also living
35 Auckland Street
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter

So please don't dismiss this info!!!!!

Regards
Catherine

I have 4 William Henry Price birth certs around '49 '50

The piece I don't have is confirmation that this is the right William born in Nov 1849 as William snr and Elizabeth were married in May 1850.

Thanks
Adam Price

Thank you all for your replies, all the above info is correct
Can any one confirm that this William was born at Wansted 18 Nov 1849 to William Henry Price and Elizabeth Morris.

Thanks
Adam Price

This is the only birth I could find in Essex:-

Births Dec 1849 (>99%)
PRICE William Henry W Ham 12 263

Marriages Dec 1852 (>99%)
BARRINGTON James Thomas Shoreditch 1c 303
PRICE Elizabeth Shoreditch 1c 303

1861?
Caroline E Barrington abt 1859 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch, Middlesex

Elizabeth Barrington abt 1826 Cambridgeshire, England Wife Shoreditch, Middlesex

James E Barrington abt 1855 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Son Shoreditch, Middlesex

James Thomas Barrington abt 1834 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Head Shoreditch, Middlesex (Bookbinder)

Sarah E Barrington abt 1857 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch, Middlesex

Walter J Barrington abt 1861 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Son Shoreditch, Middlesex

William H Price abt 1845 Stendead, Essex, England Daughter Shoreditch, Middlesex
(not daughter but "stepson")

Possibly William in 1851

Elizabeth Price abt 1831 Cambridgeshire, England Wife Wanstead, Essex
(wife of working jeweler)
William Price abt 1850 Wanstead, Essex, England Son Wanstead, Essex

William may have been born at Wansted in 1849. not sure

Adam Price

I am trying to find ascedants and descendants of William Henry Morris Price (printer and book binder) b:1849/50 and Martha Sophia Price (nee) Angliss b:1851. Married at St Bride's London in 1869. Had Elizabeth, Edith, Alice, and Florence, then emigrated to Wellington New Zealand in 1879 aboard the 'Warwick'. Then had Jessie, Edward Thomas Morris, (my Grandfather) and Grace.

Any help sincerely appreciated
Adam Price