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I didn't find them in the census either. I looked at EVERY Robert and EVERY Jane, born Scotland, and living in Jarrow or South Shields in 1861.
Carole

No, not a sign of Jane and Robert's marriage!!!
I suspect that they never married officially?
As far as we know, David Montgomery was still alive until 1870ish? I don't suppose divorce was an option, so Jane would not have been free to marry.
Maybe, between 1871 and 1881, when the family became CARR? Maybe that was the moment when they tied the knot? I must investigate that landmark.
Carole

Morning Carole,
Meant to ask you yesterday if you had found the pair in 1861 census.
You said you found Jane's husband , David Montgemery, and daughter Christiana, but what about Jane and Robert?
Catherine

Certainly it was a lot more common than Petticrew!

On 1881 census there were no Petticrew's in Durham but there were 2913 Carr's in that area.

There were, however, approx 876,000 people there, so perhaps not the most common name?

Dea x

Jeanette
You may have hit the nail right on the head!!

I have just read elsewhere, that Carr was a VERY common name in Newcastle/North Durham around that time. I have no proof of this fact but if it was so it would have been a perfect name to choose if one was trying to hide from something.

Does anyone out there know for sure that there were loads of CARRS in that area, in the mid 1800's??

Carole

Hello Jeanette
Yes I feel that they didn't want to be found but I am hoping that I might get some idea of why.
I also hope to find why they chose the name Carr. I feel that there must have been a reason?
Carole

As the change of surname coincided with a change of address, it is possible they just decided to use the surname CARR for whatever reason. Perhaps they owed money and had to move quickly and did not want to be found. I know a few of my ancestors moved quickly because they could not pay the rent. Just a thought as the surname Carr does not appear anywhere in your searches so far. It could follow they would revert to their surname on official documents like marriage certificates.

Thanks a lot Catherine!!! ..... No don't get me wrong, I really am grateful; this is all wonderful stuff and I am raring to get my teeth into it BUT I must be disciplined and single minded and try to find the elusive CARRS!!!
Carole

familysearch.org
IGI
when you have a marriage date eg. Jane Hislop - David Montgomery marriage 1850 - add ten years =1860
Where it says fathers name put - David Montgomery
Mothers name - Jane
Event - Birth/Christening
Year - 1860
Year range - +/- 10yrs.
Region - British Isles
Country - Scotland
County - East Lothian
Search

Sometimes you can be really lucky sometimes there are children missing but that could be the case if the family moved around a lot.

The two missing children in your case may be found with relatives, his or her parents for example, or they could have been adopted, or they may even have died.
Another puzzle to solve, just when you thought you'd nearly finished.
Catherine

This is amazing

But I am puzzled as to what happened to said Seton Montgomery and Robert Murdoch Montgomery?

They do not seem to be with Jane Heslop and Robert Petticrew in Jarrow or Maiden Law in 1871. They would still have been quite young, even in 1871! So what happened to them??
Christina remained with 'dad' but by 1871 she was in service at a Tarent Hotel and I could find no sign of a David Montgomery of appropriate age etc.

I am intrigued as to how and where you get such super information so quickly?

Carole

With reference to your quote:-
'possibly with a husband and child in Scotland??'
Found this on familysearch.org:-

JANE HISLOP - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 31 MAY 1850 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland
Father: CHRISTOPHER HISLOP

Spouse: DAVID MONTGOMERY

Birth/Christening, 1850 - 1860, East Lothian, Scotland, British Isles
Father: David Montgomery, Mother: Jane

CHRISTINA MONTGOMERY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 04 JUN 1854 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland

SETON MONTGOMERY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 11 JAN 1857 Gladsmuir, East Lothian, Scotland

ROBERT MURDOCH MONTGOMERY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 12 JUN 1859 Gladsmuir, East Lothian, Scotland

This has to be your Jane when you see the name of her third child
Robert "Murdoch" Montgomery!!!!!!!

Even though the name of the father of all three children is noted as being David Montgomery, I would reckon there's a good chance that it was Robert Murdoch if not for all three certainly for the last one!

regards
Catherine

Hi Catherine
Nice to hear from you again.
I have exhausted that possibility, or I think I have? ... It appears that she married a David Montgomery, 22 years her senior, of Tranent, East Lothian. A child, Christina, was born in 1854. In the 1861 census David and Christina are alone. I can find no Jane Montgomery deaths from 1855 - 1861 but that does leave the year before Scottish registration when Jane Montgomery might have died in childbirth?? I don't know how to find that piece of information? But if she didn't die, she must have left them (husband and child)

I have made an awful mess of this message board. I don't know what has happened but in an effort to get the message displayed on the Carr message board, I have ended up with two entries elsewhere. I'm going to have to erase something?? Hope I don't lose all my answers?

I have pressed some buttons. I think I have it sorted???
Carole

Hi Carole,
See you're still looking!
You say that Jane may have had a husband and child in Scotland when she met Robert:-
Jane 'possibly with a husband and child in Scotland??' ..... met up with Robert Murdoch,
Have you not thought that, if she was married, that she married someone called "Carr"
Just a thought!
Good luck.
Catherine

Can anyone out there throw any light on why my Great Grandparents changed their surname from PETTICREW to CARR?

This follows on from an earlier question .... 'Trying to find Carr, Murdoch or Petticrew?' .... The Petticrew bit is sort of resolved but CARR remains a total mystery!!!

Thanks to lots of suggestions and some further research, the following is what I now know:-

A Jane HESLOP, from East Lothian, Scotland (parents Christopher Hislop and Agnes Wilson) ... Jane 'possibly with a husband and child in Scotland??' ..... met up with Robert Murdoch, from Ayrshire, Scotland (parents James Murdoch and Sarah Pettiecrew): Robert calling himself Petticrew at this time. I can find no marriage documents for the pair, neither in England nor Scotland!!

They produced twin daughters, Sarah and Margaret, in Jarrow in 1862. The children's birth certificates show the name Petticrew.

After relocating to Maiden Law, Between Lanchester and Annfield Plain and not far from Willington, all locations noted on official records; Robert and Jane produced three sons: Robert, Christopher and Henry (Henry Murdoch .. Mayor of Durham 1929). The boys were all Petticrew, or variations of, in the 1871 census.

Then on the 1881 census they all called themselves CARR (same location, same names, same birth places, right ages; Plus TWINS Sarah and Margaret, born Jarrow 1862) ... too many coincidences!! .. it has to be the same family!!

They continued to be CARR on the 1891 census but in the meantime Sarah had married Richard Johnson giving her maiden name as MURDOCH. Her twin sister was a witness, calling herself Margaret MURDOCH and father Robert also used the surname MURDOCH on the marriage certificate.

I can't have the wrong family. Sarah Murdoch and Richard Johnson were my great grandparents and further proof that this is one family is that they called their daughter Jane Heslop Johnson after Sarah's mother.

Whilst I can see where it was from .... even if I can't figure out exactly why they used the Murdoch and Petticrew surname; and I can also see why Heslop became a middle name, .... I can find NO CARR connection ANYWHERE!!!! SO WHY CARR????? Any ideas anyone?

Thank you for taking time to read, and digest what I know of these somewhat 'odd' arrangements!

Carole